Michael,
I have just implement GTD (or trying to). I feel exactly like your client. Main difficulties:
1) Obsessed with the organization on the lists. Try to have them update up to the minute
2) Immediately process anything that goes in my mind, or just appears around me
3) Tweaking the lists trying to find out the optimal set-up
4) And the worst one... always trying to define and put into the system the next action on a project when I finish one.

This is becoming too time consuming. Focus is on organizing instead of doing :-(
Basically too much time pilling the orders instead of doing the sandwiches... as someone mentioned before ;-)

Any tip, specially, on point 4) above?

Michael,
I completely agree with your assessment. When first starting GTD, I was more of a compulsive processor. Over time, you build trust in your system and your GTD Habits that you will get to everything eventually. But you must have faith in the 5 stages of workflow as a PROCESS.

Give it time and anyone can be a Black Belt Jedi of the Threefold Nature of Work.

Nuno,

To answer your question regarding your point #4, the best starting point would be to try to start modifying that habit bit by bit.

Here's a thought: When you've finished an action on a project and notice the urge to want to immediately process the following action, try first to just collect the idea and throw it in your inbox. As long as you process your inbox at least every other day, you'll be just fine. This might be a good first step to help you experiment with loosening your grip and trusting your system more.

The Weekly Review is also a key element to answering your question. Are you doing regular full weekly reviews? If not, that could be one of the reasons for your issue. The weekly review is the time to line up your projects with all of the next actions you may not have had the chance to add in during the week.

As I mentioned in my post, remember that you're just starting out with GTD. It really does take time for one to really work out the kinks of the practice and the tools. Change happens in biological time, not in an instant.

"The weekly review is the time to line up your projects with all of the next actions you may not have had the chance to add in during the week."

-- Michael, would I be correct in saying that during the review, you plan all the next actions, but just add the very next one to the next actions list? If so, if you completed the next action, could you just check the project plan and slot the (2nd) next action into the next actions list?

This may be a no-brainer, but I've always wondered how people work their *next* next action.

Geraldine,

I guess that's essentially true. The only thing on your action lists should be actions you can actually do as soon as you want. So subsequent actions, if you need to remember them somewhere, should go in some sort of project plan, or in a note within your project (if you're digital).

Most of the time when I'm creating a new project, all I really define are the outcome and the very next actions. In my experience, as long as you're moving along in the right direction the next, next action usually shows itself to you pretty clearly once you've finished the first action. There are, of course, some projects that are just too complicated and have too many moving parts to leave to chance. For those it helps to have a complete project plan to refer to during your reviews.

Hope that helps,

Michael

I have used GTD for years and what works well for me is to only process emails three times a day. Morning, noon, and late afternoon. The rest of the time I work!

This was helpful as far as reassuring me that it takes time to sort out your system.

I just read the book and started my (your) system and am having some of the same issues as your client--feeling obsessed with the process and more engaged with it than with my own tasks. On the other hand, I am already so much more productive than before, because part of my obsession is about checking things off the lists! I did have to break some things down into smaller or daily items so that I would be able to check them off. Obviously, this is what next actions are about.

My question is about how to keep before me what is most important for this moment, day or week. With 49 action items, scanning the list every time I surface for the next action is very time consuming. Thanks for a great discussion.

Elizabeth,

Without going into too many details based on assumptions about your situation, here are a couple strategies to consider:

Are you organizing your next actions by context? For instance, a list for calls, things you need to do on the computer, things that can only be done at home, errands, etc? If not, you might give that a try. If your lists are contextual, it allows you to essentially blind yourself to all the tasks that don't really matter right now and concentrate on the ones you can actually do now.

Are you defining actual physical, visible next actions? If not consider that you're lists may not be serving you as well as they could.

There's not really a magic bullet here other than making sure to review the appropriate parts of your system regularly so that you can feel fine about all the stuff you're not doing.

Hope that helps,

Michael

Really hits a chord, Michael. Thanks. I get too hung up on the lists...and need to process more.

Seprating the steps will be helpful for me.

I start tomorrow.....

My biggest challenge right now with GTD is what to do with those actions that repeat daily. I have a list of about 12-15 physical actions that need to be completed on a daily basis. I'm fine with the "next actions" that are the product of a project; it's those other items that clutter my list each day that I'm having a problem with.

Dennis,

Not knowing all of the specifics of your workflow situation, personal preferences and environment it's tricky to give a specific recommendation. But I'll take a crack below.

Your daily repeating tasks remind me of a pilots pre-flight checklist. Might it be helpful to create your own version of this kind of checklist that you can just tick off as you complete each task every day? Maybe you could create it in a place different from where you keep your other next actions. For example, maybe even a separate sheet of paper or digital list that you keep more front and center in your workspace. Having the ability to literally check each off as you go might be helpful as well.

Michael
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I've been using GTD for years now and had also fallen in the trap of list grooming, in fact it was so frustrating that for a while I decided this whole thing is hogwash and a waste of time so I just quit altogether.

It is a classic mistake early on to spend way to much time grooming lists. The lists' sole purpose is to make you comfortable with what you are NOT doing. If a few scratches on a piece of paper suffice, then let it be. Those dependent tasks can definitely be removed. For eons humans have been getting things done without having a list of "After this do that, unless this turns into that other thing, in which case, do..." Unless your project involves flying a rocket to the moon, I would say that's way overkill. When you complete the next action, the next action after that will be obvious or require a moment's thought. Simply write down next actions on projects that you think you will not move forward on unless the immediate next action is written clearly.

Don't worry about writing down 1) trivial actions that cause you no stress and are easy to remember 2) repetitive tasks and 3) non-next actions..."next next" is in this category.

I've found a good rule is to keep your list as tiny as possible to 1) be able to move forward on any project at any time and 2) stop worrying about what you should be doing. This second reason is the big one. Do whatever is necessary to allow the second one to happen and stop, any more is a waste of time.