Separate lists for Projects and NA or not?

[annewalsh]

Hi
I have been implementing GTD since last year (and one of the things I really like about it is the sense of there being depths of competency! - so I'm learning all the time). This may sound like a stupid question to you people but at the moment I'm using an Excel workbook for my projects - linked into another Excel sheet which has my next actions.
I use pen and paper to capture (or a voice recorder if I'm out walking) stuff but how many next actions should I set out for each project...?
Is it sufficient to identify just one...then note the next action that emerges as I complete this one? Any one got ideas for best practice?
Thanks..
Anne

[jknecht]

Is it sufficient to identify just one...then note the next action that emerges as I complete this one?

Absolutely. To me, this is one of core the ideas of GTD -- if you had nothing else to work on but that one project, what is the very next thing you could possibly do to push that project forward? And if you can't do it until something else is done first, only put that first thing on the next action list (the second thing goes in a project plan somewhere).

[annewalsh]

Thanks for responding to my thread. Much appreciated!
I suppose I want to get pretty granular about it. I was using a combine Projects and NA list (sometimes with a few NA for the same project) but now I'm experimenting (after listening to the GTD system CDs) with having a master project list that has projects only and then having a next actions list that I update a couple of times a week.
I was just wondered what other people were doing that really worked for them..
Could you say a bit more about the following..."only put that first thing on the next action list (the second thing goes in a project plan somewhere)."
Thanks!
Anne

[Brent]

Welcome!


Hi
how many next actions should I set out for each project...?
Is it sufficient to identify just one...then note the next action that emerges as I complete this one?


It's called a Next Action for a reason. :-)

You only need one. If a Project has several truly independent NAs, you can write down all of them. If you want to record future Actions, you can put those in your Project support materials.

All other things being equal, the closer you are to one Next Action, the better. It's easy to overwhelm an NA list with several independent NAs per Project, thus inviting analysis paralysis, as opposed to picking one. It's not like you'll have a small list of NAs to choose from anyway!

[El_Stiff]

I only have more than one NA if the each is completely separate and independent, preferably in different contexts. The whole point of GTD is to have a specific next action to do, so if you're dithering between two (or more) the system breaks down.

But, I do often list the "next" Next Action under the one that is currently active. Sometimes I have several listed - they're usually more like notes, and not set in stone. But there's not harm in jotting down what might come after the action that is current active.

[Cpu_Modern]

First, let me say I like your Excel system. Many people take half the fun out of GTD by using Outlook.


Thanks for responding to my thread. Much appreciated!
I suppose I want to get pretty granular about it.
Pretty granular is good. Use NAs as jumppoints, not as descriptions of a whole stream of actions.



I was just wondered what other people were doing that really worked for them..

Just plain vanilla GTD works fine for me for years now. I have every possible NA in my system - not 'artificially reduced to one NA per Project. I have one NA per moving part of each project (p. 76 in GTD book).

I review my lists constantly. Most of the time I work off of my head because the constant reviewing makes me conscious for what is the 'best use of my time.

I use that olde trick of starting the day with a pre-defined most important task.


Could you say a bit more about the following..."only put that first thing on the next action list (the second thing goes in a project plan somewhere)."

Only put true NAs on the context-lists. Put other already apparent actions, milestones, sub-project, definitions of outcomes and so on into an action plan for the project. Each project that needs more planning than the NA to make you stop thinking about it, get's an project plan. There is a chapter in GTD about project planning / natural planning.

[GTDWorks]

I used to believe that I could only have 1 next action per project. But the members here were very helpful to instruct me on a better practice and I have not looked back. I now have multiple independent actions on my lists and accomplish a lot more as a result.

[Gardener]

It's plenty to have just one - in fact, I think that it may technically be a violation to have more than one. I've been trying to suppress my frequent urge to write a long elaborate set of actions, because often I end up following a different path, and I have to clean up those actions. Thats not much work, because I use an electronic system, but it's still two pieces of time wasted - the time to write all the actions, and the time to turn around and delete or rearrange them.

I _do_ sometimes wrote a long series of terribly obvious actions when I'm feeling overwhelmed by a task. If I find the bits of the task that I _do_ understand, write them up as actions to make them important, and then nibble away at the problem by working them and checking them off, I often find that by the time I get to the center of the problem, I know how to handle it. Without tricking myself with all of those little actions, I might still be staring blankly at the outside of the task.

[annewalsh]

Hi Brent...
Was intrigued by this
"You only need one. If a Project has several truly independent NAs, you can write down all of them. If you want to record future Actions, you can put those in your Project support materials."
So would you suggest that I have a folder per project (I've got lots of projects and the idea of creating folders - well - to use the GTD term :) "repels" me!

Any thoughts on that..
Thank you
Anne

[annewalsh]

I only have more than one NA if the each is completely separate and independent, preferably in different contexts. The whole point of GTD is to have a specific next action to do, so if you're dithering between two (or more) the system breaks down.

But, I do often list the "next" Next Action under the one that is currently active. Sometimes I have several listed - they're usually more like notes, and not set in stone. But there's not harm in jotting down what might come after the action that is current active.

Thanks for this...I got a a-ha with this...so it looks as though it would be fine to have more than one NA - as long as they are in different contexts - e.g. if my project requires both research and a few phone calls...I could put the research under @computer and maybe one or two of the calls under @Phone
Thanks for that..

[annewalsh]

First, let me say I like your Excel system. Many people take half the fun out of GTD by using Outlook.

Thanks for that...I love Excel (sigh!) and have separate sheets for NA and another file for Focus and responsibility and another for Projects..

Pretty granular is good. Use NAs as jumppoints, not as descriptions of a whole stream of actions.

I've noticed that the more granular I am...the more likely it is to get done.



Just plain vanilla GTD works fine for me for years now. I have every possible NA in my system - not 'artificially reduced to one NA per Project. I have one NA per moving part of each project (p. 76 in GTD book).

Yep, I need to re-read the book! thanks

I review my lists constantly. Most of the time I work off of my head because the constant reviewing makes me conscious for what is the 'best use of my time.

I use that olde trick of starting the day with a pre-defined most important task.


Only put true NAs on the context-lists. Put other already apparent actions, milestones, sub-project, definitions of outcomes and so on into an action plan for the project. Each project that needs more planning than the NA to make you stop thinking about it, get's an project plan. There is a chapter in GTD about project planning / natural planning.

So would you suggest drawing up an action plan for each project (using one's judgment on it though...probably don't need one to make a dental appointment for my son..although it does generally take longer than 2 minutes!)
Thanks again.
anne

[annewalsh]

I used to believe that I could only have 1 next action per project. But the members here were very helpful to instruct me on a better practice and I have not looked back. I now have multiple independent actions on my lists and accomplish a lot more as a result.

Thanks for this as well..

[kewms]

So would you suggest drawing up an action plan for each project (using one's judgment on it though...probably don't need one to make a dental appointment for my son..although it does generally take longer than 2 minutes!)

Yes, by all means draw up an action plan for each project that needs one.

(Identifying which projects those are is left as an exercise for the reader.)

Having an action plan means you only need to go through the "what does this project entail" exercise once, instead of every time you need to generate a new action. Action plans are also very useful when you're trying to set other people's expectations.

Katherine

[NewbGTD]

Could you say a bit more about the following..."only put that first thing on the next action list (the second thing goes in a project plan somewhere)."
Thanks! Anne

Its pretty easy if the tool does the job. For me i use simpleGTD web app and it basically deals with projects and next actions. it lives up to its name. To answer the above quote all you need to do in SGTD's project section is "star" the single action that you need to do next and then it appears in the next action list ready to catch your attention.

And for sure you can add more than one next action in my opinion.

[annewalsh]

Yes, by all means draw up an action plan for each project that needs one.

(Identifying which projects those are is left as an exercise for the reader.)

Having an action plan means you only need to go through the "what does this project entail" exercise once, instead of every time you need to generate a new action. Action plans are also very useful when you're trying to set other people's expectations.

Katherine

Thanks a million for this and I've just implemented this idea by having a separate Excel sheet for bigger type projects. I was struggling with it for the exact reason that you describe..."only needing to go through what the project entails" exercise once.
Good point about working with others as well.
Best wishes
Anne

[annewalsh]

Its pretty easy if the tool does the job. For me i use simpleGTD web app and it basically deals with projects and next actions. it lives up to its name. To answer the above quote all you need to do in SGTD's project section is "star" the single action that you need to do next and then it appears in the next action list ready to catch your attention.

And for sure you can add more than one next action in my opinion.

Thanks for that...what is the name of the web app or is it simpleGTD as you have named?
Thanks!

[Brent]

So would you suggest that I have a folder per project (I've got lots of projects and the idea of creating folders - well - to use the GTD term :) "repels" me!

You can, for any Projects that have lots of Actions that you want to record.

Let's divide Projects into three broad categories: brief, easy, and complex. A brief Project would be "Scrub tub" or "Practice drawing for 30 minutes" -- something that only needs one or two Actions, but still is worth tracking on your Projects list. An easy Project would be "Find cheapest air fare for Japan trip in September" or "Make cookies" -- multi-step, but not requiring a lot of complicated planning. Then you have complex Projects like "Write first draft of novel" or "Build website for client."

Only complex Projects need a folder with lots of Action steps. Brief and easy Projects either have very few Actions, or you're so familiar with them that you don't need to plan them out in great detail.

So, you don't need a folder for every Project; just the complex ones.

Out of curiosity, what repels you about making a folder?

[annewalsh]

Hi Brent..
How did you know my tub needed scrubbing:o :) ?? Alas, I am going to defer it...as it would take me more than 2 minutes..unless of course I can find someone to delegate it to... LOL
What repelled me was the idea of 30+ folders (one for each project) and having to trawl through those..but after I posted the reply. I GOT IT - exactly what you said.
I am in the middle of a complex project with quite a few steps and I did exactly what you suggested. I opened up a new excel file (named a sheet with the project name) and did the steps (after a skype conversation with a business partner). But for the simpler projects sufficient to put them on my master project list and identify the next 1 or 2 NA.
Thank you so much again!

[Roger]

I've got lots of projects and the idea of creating folders - well - to use the GTD term :) "repels" me!


You must feel equally comfortable about filing a single piece of paper on a new topic -- even a scribbled note -- in its own file as you would about filing a more formal, larger document. --GTD



Cheers,
Roger

[NewbGTD]

Yeah that's the name of it. No fancy thrills but its been the most product tool for actually getting things done.

[Oogiem]

So would you suggest that I have a folder per project (I've got lots of projects and the idea of creating folders - well - to use the GTD term :) "repels" me!


Not Brent but I find that for some things a single big folder with all the various project notes on someday/maybe projects for that area works. But I will also make a folder for a single piece of paper if I feel I need it.

My grouped folders are things like Knitting Projects, or Weaving Projects. I dump all the various paper notes about things I want to do in those crafts into a single Knitting Projects Folder or a Weaving Projects folder. When I activate a someday/maybe project from that area I will make it it's own folder if I have support materials for it. Part of moving a project into active is that I go through the support folder if it;s a group one and pull out all the items that relate to that specific project to the new folder/\.

So right now I have a folder for Slops Contract Stockings, a knitting project to make replica grey knitted stockings that match the British slops contracts from the Golden Age of Piracy timeframe. I have historical notes, the actual slops contracts data, some wool archeology notes and so on. Until I actually decided to make them all that material was still in the Knitting Projects folder.

[annewalsh]

One powerful insight I got from this really valuable discussion was that one area I need to work on is clarifying an action plan for more complex projects and really nailing down the next actions. I'm looking at a couple of webpages I need to update and I've realised that I haven't really nailed down the next action on them which is why I am feeling stuck on them.
Thanks for your input and savvy again!

[alsa]

I use a software called Things and it lists Projects (active Projects) together with Next (actions). In other words, all next actions (whether they are solo actions or parts of projects are in the same long list, though projects are listed at the bottom.)

In this software, there is a way to view Projects only (individually).

Also, there is a way to view all actions belonging to an area of responsibility -- whether they are next actions -- solo or parts of projects, scheduled items that don't start until a certain date in the future, and Someday/Maybe items.

The software has essentially taught me how to apply GTD hands on.

[annewalsh]

Hi
Am going to check out the Things software you mentioned..:o
Anne