Paper still winning [Archive] - David Allen Company Forums

mkofide

03-28-2010, 03:07 AM

For the past 2 years I've been shifting between paper and digital (at one point I was digital for work and paper for personal) and I do acknowledge that paper juts feels more comfortable and facilitates a free flow of thoughts; yet ever since I had to sift through trash a few months back because my paper based system was thrown by mistake in a dumpster I realized that a fully paper based system poses a risk of loss or damage (maybe even theft if you're using fancy casing) and without the ability to practically backup the data.

Since then I've been all digital with plenty of backups. The prospect of losing my system and not being able to retrieve the data is just too much to bear (Thank you David!)

Best of luck

RegionalSalesman

03-28-2010, 12:03 PM

My wife uses paper based system with a handy backup. Every week after the weekly review she runs the important documents through the scanner. That is: 1) NA lists + W/F (6 pages), 2) calendar (everything thats not within two next weeks is on monthly view only - as are all recurring events)(this totals 6-10 pages at most), 3) project list (1 page) and 4) some miscellanious stuff she keeps in planner (2-3 pages). Takes app. 10 mins.
-Jukka

sarahg

03-28-2010, 12:39 PM

Thanks for the thoughts; I hadn't really thought about backup. I might start taking out the digital camera and doing a quick snapshot in weekly reviews (then I don't need to take pages out for the scanner etc).

I think the key advantage for me is that paper bypasses the geek gene - I can just use paper without tinkering.

mkofide

03-28-2010, 01:48 PM

Another teensy-weensy shortcoming when it comes to paper is that you don't get the benefit of automated reminders, which for me at least, is very important.

I'm now keeping only my action lists and reference data (i.e. checklists, bank acc. registration #'s, etc.) digital, and for everything else I use a hefty notepad

RegionalSalesman: Thanks for the tip; crossed my mind (specially after the dumpster episode) but you just can't beat an electronic backup

mackiest

03-28-2010, 05:13 PM

I've experimented with both paper and digital and find that they are good at different things, and thus complement each other nicely.

Electronic ....
... is a must for calendar since it automatically reminds me of important commitments.
... is more portable (in a sense) since everything fits onto an encrypted USB key.
... is more secure and reliable since I can password protect it and easily make backups.
... is more shareable since people can have access to my calendar remotely for example.

Paper ...
... is really easy to use especially for ad-hoc planning, brainstorming, note taking.
... is more portable (in a sense) since all you need is a pad of paper and a pen.

For certain kinds of work, especially natural planning and brainstorming I just way prefer hand-written media such as notepads and whiteboards.

jimboling

03-28-2010, 06:59 PM

PocketMod is the only paper aspect of my system (beyond some paper filing at work). I use a custom one that I print from Word. It is very nice because:
1) I can paste in my week's meetings. Handy considering my desktop sync to my Nokia omits the conference room; one page of my Pocketmod is used for my meetings. I print one per week, and just write in any changes or meetings that get added (fortunately the bulk of mine are schedule the prior week or earlier
2) We use a home-grown resource planning tool at work and another page gets the work assigned to me pasted in.

The rest of it is just lined pages for shopping and quick capture of to-dos along with a couple completely blank pages for whatever.

The PocketMod (http://www.pocketmod.com/v2/) site is a great starting point though.

mjbengt

03-29-2010, 04:52 AM

I too use a paper system. I too have gone back and forth. As it stands right now, I am solely on paper. I found that the temptation to leave old copies of lists in digital format was just too strong, especially when storage is so cheap and text files are so small. For instance, when transferring to my USB key, I would not delete the old copies on my hard drive (fear of losing key). Then, I would copy those lists to a laptop or other machine from the key. I would probably delete from the laptop when done, but then I have to reconcile the changes with my original lists on the hard drive once the changes came back in. If I took the time to use a naming convention and archive older versions, etc., it would feel too much like drag on my system. Even when cleaning out old "reference" (i.e. deleting old archived versions and folders on hard drive), I would be strongly compelled to do that one last look over every copy just in case I missed that one special list item. Again, too much drag.

Now, the ONE THING I LOVE about digital is the ability to delete a friggin' line when done! On paper, old tasks are crossed out and then when sheets get crowded and noisy, I eventually have to do the obligatory transfer of remaining tasks to a new sheet. To me, this is currently the lesser of two evils.

For repeat tasks, I use my Tickler File to remind me. I would really like some feedback on this approach. I couldn't bear cluttering email or calendar with so many task and event reminders, but I needed a way to do this function. So, the calendar is for known hard dates with certain people at certain times, but I use the Tickler File for day-specific reminders for events with no action yet decided about them, like birthdays and anniversaries. Example: For anniversary on October 31, I put note in "October" folder. Then I put "Call Restaurant xxxxx" on my @PHONE or @CALLS list, or a hard date on my calendar for that call, after I've dumped my tickler file into "IN" on the night before October 01. Putting "Anniversary" on my calendar is too ambiguous because there's work still to be defined for it.

One last tip I use is to put a label on each sheet of my lists. When I do that, I know that only papers with a label on them at the top are my canonical lists, and all the rest are scrap or working papers, or other. I do this because my loose-leaf binder has lots of other pages in it too, like reference and checklists.

Roger

03-29-2010, 08:19 AM

On paper, old tasks are crossed out and then when sheets get crowded and noisy, I eventually have to do the obligatory transfer of remaining tasks to a new sheet. To me, this is currently the lesser of two evils.

I avoid this by keeping each task on its own sheet of paper; you might find it worthwhile to give that a try to see if it's an improvement for you.

Cheers,
Roger

br4978

03-29-2010, 01:23 PM

I avoid this by keeping each task on its own sheet of paper; you might find it worthwhile to give that a try to see if it's an improvement for you.

Cheers,
Roger

Certainly logical, but this seems so unfriendly to the environment. Let's hope we're using pencils and erasers....

Roger

03-30-2010, 10:36 AM

br4978

03-30-2010, 01:31 PM

The whole environmental thing comes up occasionally when it comes to paper-based systems, and it's something I worried about; I don't worry any more, and this is why:

Carbon footprints of:

One ream (500 sheets) of paper: 8.5 kg

One gallon of petrol, burnt: 9 kg

One hour of watching TV: 54 kg

One iPhone, through a 3 year lifespan: 55 kg.

There's lots of things in my lifestyle that are having a significant impact on the environment, but my paper consumption isn't one of them.

Cheers,
Roger

Indeed. Still, I see a lot more than one's carbon footprint. Paper needs to be disposed of (transportation=smog), and if not handled in a manner permitting recycling tends to become trash that causes other forms of pollution. I agree it's not equivalent to a smoke-belching chimney or tailpipe, but size does not equate to significance.

mkofide

03-30-2010, 02:26 PM

We could always use clay tablets; though I don't believe its part of GTD's best practices

J.D. Iles

04-01-2010, 04:58 AM

I am also on paper

Two of the biggest benefits

I can do a HUGE amount of work from almost anywhere anytime (contacts on Blackberry)

I can do my weekly review early Saturday morning at my favorite Coffee Shop

BACKUP CONCERNS
every two weeks I take photos of every page of my system - takes about 10 minutes at the most

=================================================
J.D. Iles
Hyatt's All Things Creative

Equipment and Software / Sales and Training
On-Line Training Coordinator

direct line or text: (603) 348-7658
voice: (800) 234-9288 ext. 862
fax: (603) 962-8522

jdiles@hyatts.com
PO Box 299
Lincoln NH 03251
=================================================

sriggs

04-04-2010, 02:51 PM

I've been struggling with implementing an all digital system on the Mac. I've been through more task management software that I care to mention. I did stick with Omnifocus for about 8 months (that was an accomplishment). Although I thought I came close to having a complete GTD system a few times (Omnifocus for lists, iCal for calendar, Address book for contacts, MobileMe for reference and project support, MacBook and iPod touch), it never really quite felt right. I seemed I was always fiddling with it.

I finally broke down and bought a GTD Coordinator paper planner and a note taker wallet. I have been using it now for two weeks so it's too early to tell but I have to say, there is something really freeing about paper. There are no constraints about input format like there is with software. There's no syncing concerns. There's no cross platform compatibility woes. There's no hoping for the next cool feature to be released or conversely, there's no 'the new feature really messed up my workflow'. The best part is that it seems that when I physically write it down, I remember it. When I type it in, I don't seem to retain it.

I'm a sucker for technology so we'll see how long it lasts but I feel much more in control with the paper system. Plus, the examples included in the planner have been a big help. There is a place for everything and I don't have to tweak this or that to make it fit GTD like I've had to with every software I have tried.

rdgeorge

04-07-2010, 08:33 AM

In the "old days" when I actually met David Allen, I had a Time/Design paper system. More recently (and for a long time,) I had a hybrid system.

My current sytem is Omnifocus and Evernote. Syncing through the clouds could not be easier. My devices are a Mac Pro, an ITouch and now an iPad with wireless keyboards at specific locations.

But like many of you, I prefer to cature, brainstorm, etc. on paper, and love good paper and good pens and mechanical pencils (Lamy, from Germany). So........

With my iPad (in the discrete, dull black protective case) I carry a GTD Tools zipper pouch (the medium sized one) and in the zipper case, along with my Verizon Wireless MiFi device, I have the GTD A5 paper pads, which are wonderful to use with good pens and pencils. I also like Levenger stuff, but I now prefer the Davidco GTD A-5 pads.

rdgeorge

J.D. Iles

04-08-2010, 02:22 AM

yeah..... i agree with u all .....paper are still good but u know .... technology is changed and working with digital is very easy and comfort and through them we have a large scale to work....

I have been doing GTD for 10 years and have tried every type of digital, paper, and hybrid system out there

For me

Nothing is faster than paper
Nothing helps me scan by lists faster than paper
Nothing is as versatile as paper

If you haven't tried a paper-based system, i strongly suggest giving it a go

=================================================
J.D. Iles
Hyatt's All Things Creative

Equipment and Software / Sales and Training
On-Line Training Coordinator

direct line or text: (603) 348-7658
voice: (800) 234-9288 ext. 862
fax: (603) 962-8522

jdiles@hyatts.com
PO Box 299
Lincoln NH 03251
=================================================

Schaumi

04-10-2010, 03:50 PM

Although I check at least once per week another computer software for GTD alike system, I always fall back to my my good ole paper system.

When you have ensured enough material of paper (cheapiest way is self production), a sorting system based on GTD (with chapter sign leaves), then nothing can stop you on organizing.

I can't take my stationary home computer everywhere with me. And my Palm, when Batteries go down it's not usuable.

But paper is always usuable, just limited at amount and ability by pen or author (myself).

Barb

04-10-2010, 06:00 PM

I bought this beautiful Circa (by Levenger) notebook and a fancy pen (I never do that) in teal and purple. I splurged on matching discs. I'm in love with the thing and it is rapidly calling me away from the Add in for Outlook.

I do that sometimes anyway...just switch to paper for awhile. I do keep my calendar electronic, though. Too much to deal with and too many changes.

RenaudL

04-10-2010, 10:59 PM

I used to be "all digital" but now I tend to get more "paper" these days.

I will print or keep papers part of a current project, if I think I still need them "in front of me" when reviewing projects or attending meetings. The rest will be digital, in separate folders on my PC (and Google Desktop to quickly find them). I will scan (if handwritten) and shred when it is no longer necessary in front of me. Still too much paper around but it's much faster than retrieving a file from a PC (especially with Windows.....)

photodiva

04-11-2010, 02:38 AM

MobileMe for reference and project support, .

Could you elaborate on how you use MobileMe for reference and project support? Your digital system sounds very similar to mine - except for this. (I too flip back and forth periodically from digital to paper - sometimes, as Barb says later in this thread, it keeps things fresh, but other times it's just fiddling and a big distraction).

Thanks!
Claudia

sriggs

04-11-2010, 08:01 AM

Could you elaborate on how you use MobileMe for reference and project support?

Since the sync issues with iDisk seem to be fixed in Snow Leopard, I sync my iDisk and place project support material and reference material in my iDisk > Documents folder.

I have a General Reference folder, a Read-Review folder and a Project Support folder. I just throw stuff in the General Reference folder and rely on search and good document naming to find it again. Each project that needs it, gets a folder in the Project Support folder. I use iWork documents or txt or RTF (only file types the iPod can display).

The whole reason I do all this is so:
1- I can use the iDisk client on my iPod touch to get to my files when I'm mobile. It works well. I can't edit the documents but at least I can get to them if I need them. I still have a wish that Apple will turn out iWork apps for iPod.
2- I get an online and local backup of my files without any effort. I have a TimeMachine backup to a network drive at home of the files that are also on my iDisk. I feel pretty safe regarding my data with this setup.

rdgeorge

04-11-2010, 08:44 AM

Omnifocus can use Mobileme to sync all of the Projects, NA's etc to multiple devices.

iWorks applications are available for the iPad (sold separately for around $10 each). OS 4 is supposed to support multi-tasking on an iPad. It is supposed to be out Fall 2010.

rdgeorge

PimJansens

04-12-2010, 10:45 AM

I only print a small percentage of documents I receive, but nevertheless these printed documents play an important role. E.g.: Meeting notes and agenda's , contracts, reports, project planning schedules, etc. Paper documents are often easy to: take with you, make notes on or to study from.

After printing you have to make a decision for piling or putting effort into filing the documents. Both approaches have their pros and cons. After reading some studies about piling and filing strategies, I experimented with a hybrid system called the pile-file. I was so enthusiastic about this method that I made a YouTube film about it:
http://www.youtube.com/robsprotips#p/a/u/1/H5tnm8Xj1d0

http://www.robsprotips.com/
http://www.youtube.com/robsprotips

Layla

04-16-2010, 05:56 AM

After printing you have to make a decision for piling or putting effort into filing the documents. Both approaches have their pros and cons. After reading some studies about piling and filing strategies, I experimented with a hybrid system called the pile-file. I was so enthusiastic about this method that I made a YouTube film about it:
http://www.youtube.com/robsprotips#p/a/u/1/H5tnm8Xj1d0

http://www.robsprotips.com/
http://www.youtube.com/robsprotips

Very interesting!! (I have now a slightly different system, as the binder didn't work for me, I may use some of your tips though! eg I like double-tagging a piece of paper for 2 different things, etc!)

I think I'm a filer-piler too, just a slightly different one! :) Good to find a name and some scientific info for this!

bkim316

04-23-2010, 01:56 PM

It seems like people here who use and love paper really love it. I see a lot of people struggling to find a digital system but usually people wi paper systems seem to have it down.

I just can't personally. Paper is my enemy in many ways. It gets lost or misfiled or is unreadable, no backup possibility, space considerations.

Advantages I see though are ease of implementation, the processing on paper is just so much easier, and you can create any format you want, never crashes, and mainly you can concentrate on the system and not the tool. Also you don't have to go by another's viewpoint of gtd. So customization.

They both have pros and cons.

TesTeq

04-23-2010, 10:04 PM

I just can't personally. Paper is my enemy in many ways. It gets lost or misfiled or is unreadable, no backup possibility, space considerations.

Paper gets lost or you are losing it? Bits get lost very often too!

Paper is unreadable? I think it is more readable in bright sun than LCD screen.

No backup? I can use my digital camera to backup any piece of paper.

Space considerations? Index cards or Moleskine are smaller and lighter than iPad.

Oogiem

04-24-2010, 05:53 AM

harringg

04-24-2010, 10:53 AM

Paper is unreadable? I think it is more readable in bright sun than LCD screen.

Paper may be more readable, but my handwritting can be un-legible. I've been told I write like a doctor, now only if I got paid like one. LOL

No backup? I can use my digital camera to backup any piece of paper.

That's a great bit of advice! I do routinely scan important reference documents, shred the originals, and even OCR them for fast searching (and have a rigorous back up system), but I often have loose scraps of paper lying around with notes that I'll "get back to" and I could just as easily take a photo with my camera an not have to worry about losing them.

p.s. Do the Instant Subscriptions not work on these forums? I've subscribed to several threads and never get an email even though there is an update. I have to come to the boards to see if there are any. I don't have a spam filter on the account these go to, so it's not getting trapped there.

Andrewrdavidson

04-24-2010, 11:32 PM

I like using paper for all the reasons people have said -it's easy and you feel more of a connection to the content. When I started with GTD (a long time ago) paper was the only way for me to go and I used a Filofax organiser and lots of lined paper. Worked for me.

I toyed with Moleskines (using a variety of set ups) but I didn't like the permanence of the pages. The ability to just take out organiser pages trumped it.

Because of the dominance of email in my work I moved to Outlook and used it for a few years. The main advantage of using Outlook tasks for me was the ability to very quickly drop emails and thoughts into the system. That's still an advantage that's hard to beat in my view.

The disadvantage of the system for me was that my employer won't allow me to sync up outlook with my iPhone and so I had to have two systems - one for personal and one for work.

In order to get more consistency with tasks I now use Omnifocus on my iPhone for everything. I also used a small notepad when I don't have time to get something into the Omnifocus in-box. Omnifocus is great in many respects and does allow me to get a wider overview of both personal and work areas. The big downsides are no link to Outlook and email and no back up (I have no Mac at the moment). Work have given me a Blackberry and so I also have my Outlook email with me at all times and so this plus my iPhone is sufficient to keep everything with me at all times. Not ideal but it works.

I'm not planning a change any time soon having listened to Augusto's discussion of tools and toys!

Andrew

rdgeorge

04-25-2010, 06:28 AM

Andrew:

I love good paper and good pens. To me they are wonderful for capture, brainstorming and notes. There is something Z-word-that-cannot-be-spoken-like about capturing a new idea on a clean, blank piece of good paper, using a good pen.

At my workplace, Outlook is used for e-mail. I cannot synch to it because it is on a Citrix server. I used to run a separate copy of Outlook on my Thinkpad, set up according to the GTD guideline paper, until I discovered Omnifocus. I now use an iPad and and iTouch with Mobileme. I keep a wireless keyboard and charger at the office.

When you have waited the requisite six months, you might consider this. You could do it without having a Mac at home. Everything would be backed up in the clouds, and your iPhone would be up to date all the time with your lists. Regarding e-mail, you could forward e-mail that you want to process to your iPhone or an iPad (assuming you have WiFi at your workplace).

rdgeorge

Andrewrdavidson

04-25-2010, 01:28 PM

rdgeorge

Thanks for your comments. We use Citrix too hence part of the problem :)

I completely agree with you about paper and great pen. I like cheap fountain pens because I don't worry about losing them but they have a fluidity that you don't get with many other pens. And they are cheap!

Andrew

JohnV474

04-26-2010, 06:19 PM

Paper gets lost or you are losing it? Bits get lost very often too!

Paper is unreadable? I think it is more readable in bright sun than LCD screen.

No backup? I can use my digital camera to backup any piece of paper.

Space considerations? Index cards or Moleskine are smaller and lighter than iPad.

Give us a break, guy. The message that you replied to was only expressing a preference ("for me personaly [sic])."

There are times when digital is less readable than paper, as you said. There are also many times when paper is less readable than digital, such as virtually anything that is handwritten.

When it comes to space, index cards and Moleskine MAY be smaller than iPad. It depends on how many index cards and which Moleskine notebooks you mean. As the user moves beyond basic list functionality, paper cannot compete with digital storage when it comes to size. It is very easy to carry dozens of bankers boxes' worth of paper files on something smaller than a pen, let alone a stack of index cards.

Computer data can get lost, you're right. However, the effort required to virtually eliminate the risk of data loss is exponentially less than that required to do so with paper.

There is also some irony in your arguing for reasons why paper is better than digital, and yet use a digital camera backup solution as part of your argument.

If you care to know, I am not a proponent of using either paper or digital to the exclusion of the other. There are advantages to both, depending on the circumstances. If I need/want very large amounts of information readily available, nothing can beat digital storage. On the other hand, most of the time paper beats digital for quick capture, as I can get out my UCT and pen and start writing within two seconds of having the thought.

Just a few thoughts.
JohnV474