10K, 20K, 30K, 40K, 50K . . . What does it mean?!

[innovyse]

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how to fit these into the GTD system. I've read through the pages in the book, but it just hasn't "clicked" for me yet.

What extra information do I need to define for these areas? It seems like if I define NA's and Projects, I've also defined 10K and 30K?

It seems like they translate into 1) "Now" items 2) Short term goals and projects and 3) long term goals and projects. If that's true, then why did we complicate it with all the other stuff, and if not true, what am I missing?

Thanks!

[mattsykes]

The horizons of focus are taking a step back from the specifics of actions and projects, to ask the increasingly big 'why' questions. They are important to do periodically - certainly not weekly, but between quarterly and annually - to make sure you don't just 'do' indefinitely without any greater purpose.

[TesTeq]

It seems like if I define NA's and Projects, I've also defined 10K and 30K?

Projects = 10K.

Defining NAs & Projects does not imply that you've defined your Goals & Objectives (30K). For example you may pay your bills just for fun or as part of your goal to get out of debt during next 12 months.

[pxt]

The book does seem to be vague about how to integrate horizons of focus above 10K ( projects ) into the daily workflow and weekly and monthly review cycles in a way that can be described as a systematic approach.

In my own case, I have decided that the purpose of documents above 10K is to generate Next Projects and hold support materials at a level that crosses multiple such projects, in the same way that a project generates Next Actions and holds support materials that cross multiple actions.

This gives me something concrete to do at review time which is to check that each document has a Next Project. I run through these at monthly review, so now I have a concrete action plan for monthly reviews too.

This still leaves the question of how each level from 20K to 50K behaves differently and I have issues there. For example, the longevity and scope of my Areas of Focus is greater than those of my goals and visions and so they seem to belong above visions and below purpose ! ( And why should I care anyway ? ).

[ellobogrande]

If you're new to GTD, don't put a lot of focus into the 20-50,000 ft focus areas. Be aware of them, but don't try to get clear on them at first or you'll blow all of your fuses. You need to get control of the current runway and 10,000 ft in your life. Once you've gotten control over those things then you will be able to graduate your thinking into the higher altitudes.

D.A.'s book "Making it All Work" goes into greater level of detail on how and when to engage with these other altitudes.

[TesTeq]

The book does seem to be vague about how to integrate horizons of focus above 10K ( projects ) into the daily workflow and weekly and monthly review cycles in a way that can be described as a systematic approach.

My understanding is that high-level Horizons of Focus (above 10K) are linked with Runway and 10K via Weekly Reviews only. Weekly Review is primarily the time to check if Runway (Next Actions) is aligned with Projects level. You do the extended Weekly Review monthly/quarterly/yearly to check if the higher levels are aligned too.

[kkuja]

My understanding is that high-level Horizons of Focus (above 10K) are linked with Runway and 10K via Weekly Reviews only. Weekly Review is primarily the time to check if Runway (Next Actions) is aligned with Projects level. You do the extended Weekly Review monthly/quarterly/yearly to check if the higher levels are aligned too.

Quoted for truth. This is also pretty much how I have understood it.

E.G. in weekly review you review some of your horizons of focus, asking yourself, does this altitude contain something that needs new projects to advance. Review frequency is defined by the question how often you need to review altitude to stay up to date and stress free. So it may be weekly or may be yearly. As a rule of thumb, higher the altitude, less frequently you need to review it. (E.g. 50k thinking: is this job part of life I want to live?)

As a rough simplification, I say that altitudes above 10K generate projects and projects generate next actions.

runway: Next actions
10k: projects
20k: Areas of responsibility
30k: Vision and goal for 1-2 years
40k: Vision and goal for 3-5 years
50k: life

If you think I have have got something wrong, please tell me about it.

[pxt]

kkuja,

I think you are on the right track in attempting to define the mechanics of how to keep your 20K+ materials aligned. I.e., what is it that you do, consistently, during your reviews and your workflow that makes that alignment happen?

The GTD books describe in detail how to align projects (10K) and Next Actions, but they leave it open for 20K+. In your description above, you have decided that the link is that 20K+ materials generate projects. This works for me but I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is an implementation decision for something that was not covered in the book.

My reasons for liking the Next Project approach is that it gives me concrete ways of maintaining that alignment. During monthly review I check from top down that every 20K+ material has a Next Project. Every project I create names its parent and, at project completion, I create a weekly review action to track back to the parent and see what needs to be done to move this 20K+ material to the next Next Project.

[TesTeq]

I think you are on the right track in attempting to define the mechanics of how to keep your 20K+ materials aligned. I.e., what is it that you do, consistently, during your reviews and your workflow that makes that alignment happen?

I think "Making It All Work" by David Allen gives more thorough description of the connection between Control and Perspective (workflow management and horizons of focus). Highly recommended!

[pxt]

I think "Making It All Work" by David Allen gives more thorough description of the connection between Control and Perspective (workflow management and horizons of focus). Highly recommended!

Make your mind up. Does it have the answers or are you not sure?

[David.Atom]

I took the DA public course "managing projects and priorities," this month in Chicago and found that it focussed on the 20k and above and helped me to be able to implement. Explaining the mechanics - I am not there yet ;). But, there is a four CD set of DA teaching this course in the store that would probably be worth the cash if you want to make a leap forward in your understanding of this area. I am assuming the CD course follows the live one. I took this after ~1.2 years of mostly 0-10k GTD implementation. Hope that helps!

[TesTeq]

Make your mind up. Does it have the answers or are you not sure?

For me all that was required to understand the connection between Control and Perspective was the GTD book.

But MIAW book contains more thorough discussion of this topic so I think that it may help.

I cannot prove it by myself since it is not possible to understand more something that you already understand.

[pxt]

For me all that was required to understand the connection between Control and Perspective was the GTD book.

But MIAW book contains more thorough discussion of this topic so I think that it may help.

I cannot prove it by myself since it is not possible to understand more something that you already understand.

If you had understood it, then you would have contributed something to this discussion.

Useless.

[mcogilvie]

If you had understood it, then you would have contributed something to this discussion.

Useless.

Don't be harsh. I recommend books and papers to students all the time based on what I think may be of benefit to them, not necessarily on what I got out of them.

[TesTeq]

If you had understood it, then you would have contributed something to this discussion.

Useless.

Thank you for your comment. Probably you haven't noticed my previous post in this thread so I quote it for your convenience:


My understanding is that high-level Horizons of Focus (above 10K) are linked with Runway and 10K via Weekly Reviews only. Weekly Review is primarily the time to check if Runway (Next Actions) is aligned with Projects level. You do the extended Weekly Review monthly/quarterly/yearly to check if the higher levels are aligned too.

[darlakbrown]

If you had understood it, then you would have contributed something to this discussion.

Useless.

What's up with the attitude? Completely unnecessary and "useless", too!

[iannarino]

Make your mind up. Does it have the answers or are you not sure?

Making It All Work does a great job explaining the Horizons of Focus and how they fit into GTD. But, the problem some people have is trying to cram the horizons into a tool like Omnifocus.

Your life's meaning doesn't fit into a project, it is all of your projects (which may give you pause the next time you look at your projects). If your projects aren't part of a plan to get you to your goals, then you are going to feel it; you can't neglect the 30,000 and 40,000 K view of what you are doing.

The tools, in my opinion, work to capture the 10K and 20K. Completing the tasks, the "do," is how you achieve at 30-50K.

[cwoodgold]

You might like the chart I posted (5th post in "defining goals in vision" thread).
After reading "Making it All Work" I had a clearer idea of what the Horizons of Focus
are, and made the chart to express my understanding.

[ArcCaster]

I participated in a discussion about this when I was a GTD connect member (currently, I am not). What we tried to capture was the question that each of the levels asks. I can't remember the answers, but it made sense at the time. Will somebody who is a member of both forums re-post this here?

Thanks,
Rob

[Barb]

Hi, ArcCaster..miss you over in Connect :)

Here are the definitions:

10,000: Projects
20,000: Areas of Focus and responsibility
30,000: Goals and Objectives (next 12-24 months)
40,000: Vision: Long-term outcomes and ideal scenarios/goals
50,000: Purpose and Core Values - why am I doing this?

Hope this helps.

[ArcCaster]

Thanks Barb,

Good to hear from you :)

That is a start. I would like to add the questions. That is, the reason we wrestle a little with the levels is they are described as 'things' or as nouns. If we describe each level as a question that must be answered, we have now defined the levels in terms of what they mean to us.

The ones I think I remember are:

Project -- what outcome am I committed to work toward over the next few months?
Next Action -- What is the the next sharply-defined step (this is almost like a bookmark) toward that project outcome?

And possibly:
Vision -- what would it look like, feel like, taste like, if my project outcome were achieved?
Goal -- what outcome (possiblly unachievable) do I want to shoot for?
Purpose -- Why am I doing all this stuff?

Thanks,
Rob

[Barb]

Thanks Barb,

Good to hear from you :)

That is a start. I would like to add the questions. That is, the reason we wrestle a little with the levels is they are described as 'things' or as nouns. If we describe each level as a question that must be answered, we have now defined the levels in terms of what they mean to us.

The ones I think I remember are:

Project -- what outcome am I committed to work toward over the next few months?
Next Action -- What is the the next sharply-defined step (this is almost like a bookmark) toward that project outcome?

And possibly:
Vision -- what would it look like, feel like, taste like, if my project outcome were achieved?
Goal -- what outcome (possiblly unachievable) do I want to shoot for?
Purpose -- Why am I doing all this stuff?

Thanks,
Rob

More...
50,000: In addition to "why" - What are the critical behaviors?
40,000: What it will look, sound, feel like with successful implementation.
30,000: What do we want and need to accomplish, specifically, within the next 12-24 months, to make this happen?
20,000: What am I responsible for maintaining in my life? What roles do I play?
10,000: What are the outcomes we want to achieve that require more than one action? (completed within one year)? What does wild success look like? What does "done" look like?
Runway: What is the next physical, visible action?

Source: David Allen Co. GTD Templates--embellished by experience :)

I'd also like to add that most people probably don't get beyond maybe 30,000 feet in the first 1-2 years. I know I sure didn't. If you're just starting out with GTD, learning about next actions and projects and getting that system set up is pretty all-consuming. That's why learning GTD is a process and, frankly, so much fun! Take your time! If you can't spout your 50K reason for being on earth by the end of the first year, you just joined a huge club!

[ArcCaster]

Thanks Barb,

Rob

[Barb]

Rob,

I was editing while you were thanking me. Wouldn't you agree with my last paragraph?

[ArcCaster]

Hi Barb,

Yes, no, and a tangent :)

Starting with the tangent:

Initially, working at the next action and the project level, I had things on my lists that just would not go away. I could not mark them complete, no matter how much time I spent on them. My lists became very irritating :mad:

Turns out these persistent items did not belong at the next action or the project level. They were higher level. Once I moved them up, my life became saner, and I started crossing things off my project and next action lists. So, you need to know the definition of the higher levels so that you don't stick everything at the lowest two levels.

Yes -- agreed -- still looking for completeness at the high levels.

No -- However, right from the first day, you can put some general stuff there. For example, something that is easy to add to purpose is to enhance the lives of those you intersect with. Seems like a simple general purpose statement -- but it can still be a guiding thought and get you started. And, if you have ever taken a Myers Briggs or Kiersey inventory, your 'type' can go at the higher level (labels like 'teacher' or 'healer', etc). And from that, you can work your way down to lower-level implications. These are not necessarily THE answers -- but they are seeds that you can sow early, giving them time to germinate or to percolate, and maybe they become more 'you-specific' over time.

Wouldn't you agree, Barb?

Rob

[Barb]

Hi Barb,

Yes, no, and a tangent :)

Starting with the tangent:

Initially, working at the next action and the project level, I had things on my lists that just would not go away. I could not mark them complete, no matter how much time I spent on them. My lists became very irritating :mad:

Turns out these persistent items did not belong at the next action or the project level. They were higher level. Once I moved them up, my life became saner, and I started crossing things off my project and next action lists. So, you need to know the definition of the higher levels so that you don't stick everything at the lowest two levels.

Yes -- agreed -- still looking for completeness at the high levels.

No -- However, right from the first day, you can put some general stuff there. For example, something that is easy to add to purpose is to enhance the lives of those you intersect with. Seems like a simple general purpose statement -- but it can still be a guiding thought and get you started. And, if you have ever taken a Myers Briggs or Kiersey inventory, your 'type' can go at the higher level (labels like 'teacher' or 'healer', etc). And from that, you can work your way down to lower-level implications. These are not necessarily THE answers -- but they are seeds that you can sow early, giving them time to germinate or to percolate, and maybe they become more 'you-specific' over time.

Wouldn't you agree, Barb?

Rob

I agree with all that you've said Rob, but it wasn't my journey. Perhaps it was due to where I was in my life when I was implementing GTD (right around 9/11, just taken a golden parachute, thinking about starting my own business), but I really had all I could do to wrap my blond brain around the basic stuff--maybe through Areas of Focus. Of course, Making it All Work had not yet been written, there was no GTD Connect, I'd never been to a public seminar, etc. Trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who, say, is a super busy professional and a parent with TONS of stuff coming at them and maybe zero time for reflection--well, I think that person is going to probably have a longer journey than someone who has lots of quiet time.

I guess the reason I'm putting all this out there is just to encourage anyone who, like me, is taking a while to implement GTD and maybe struggling a bit-- to think of it as a process. Heck, if all you do right away is set up some basic lists you are SO much ahead of where you used to be. And then that Weekly Review sneaks in (and BOY that habit sure does change a lot of things)...if you improve by just 1% per day, think where you'll be in a year! That may seem a long way off, but that year is going to pass anyway....

I hope this makes sense. I'm happy to answer questions if it doesn't. :p

[artsinaction]

Barb - I always love reading your level-headed responses. It's a blast being on Connect with you.

To the original point, I found that my entry into the higher elevations was through mind mapping. I sat down with a white sheet of cardstock and wrote "20,000 - Areas of Focus" in the center then just started scrawling down whatever surfaced. I didn't worry about where I placed things on the page, it happened more or less organically. And I didn't worry of about being complete. Heck, on the higher levels, I didn't even worry about being entirely realistic! My only goal was to dump onto paper what Goals, Vision and Purpose meant to me on that day. I have refined and rewritten them over time but I'm always surprised that the "truth" of me always comes into sharp focus.

Thanks for letting me chime in.

[Barb]

Hi Arts!

Thanks for the kind words, Arts! I'd like to add that I had a pretty crappy day yesterday and, between you and Rob, I'm feeling pretty good! ;)

Mindmaps are GREAT! I use them to map out my higher levels too. There is something about seeing it all visually that unlocks things for me. I typically use them to do all my project planning as well.

I wrote my 2012 goals about a month ago, on a mindmap, but deleted several last week. I have a tendency to think I can make great progress across all areas of my life so I write dozens of goals. That becomes overwhelming so I've learned to focus on no more than about 5 or so. I've learned too, over the years, to set up goals so they really attract me, are completely doable, and things I can accomplish well before the end of the year (I like to have "wins" coming at me all the time). At least one goal always chips away at something longer term.

Somehow this whole process is easier for me if I use a mindmap.

[AlexanderChow]

If Steve jobs had a 40k vision, it would not be what he turned out to be. I guess. So do we really need to make one?

[Cpu_Modern]

If Steve jobs had a 40k vision, it would not be what he turned out to be. I guess. So do we really need to make one?

The point is that we always make one in our heads. The question is: can we profit by making us aware of what that is, writing it down, changing it (for the better)?

Regarding Steve Jobs, I would say he was fortunate enough to turn his vision into reality.

My guess is you want to be warry to not think to small (and then not have room for big, inovative ideas). This happens easily when we become too early to specific.

Jobs wanted to make Apple an icon of consumer electronics in the digital age. His example was Sony of the analogous age. This was his vision, the details like offering a portable music player in 5 different colors were not part of the overall vision. It would be foolish to narrow yourself down to a specific detail just because you saw it in your vision. The forrest, the forrest.