Meeting Notes & Project Management

[DShick]

I have a fail safe system using NirvanaHQ to manage next actions but am looking for better ways to keep project and meeting notes.

I used to walk into meetings with paper and pen and took lots of notes (former training as a journalist) which would then be filed according to the project and next actions would go into Nirvana. But sometimes I'd be away from my office and wished I would have brought a different folder when something came up that we had previously dealt with on another project.

I then moved from paper to OneNote which required my to bring my laptop everywhere. That system worked great except our work culture is not all that embracing of laptops at meetings. There were previous abuses.

So about 3 months ago I started to experiment with EverNote. I moved all my notes there and bring my iPad to meetings so I have all of my background and notes accessible to me. No one seems to mind that. But I have problems with typing on the keypad and typing on an iPad raises the same eyebrows as a laptop. Lately, I've been taking new notes on paper and later transferring them to Evernote. That's time consuming and I fall behind during busy times.

I have to make some choices but would love to hear what others are doing. Thanks.

Dee

[Roger]

I haven't actually tried this technology myself, so take this with a grain of salt, but it seems like there are "digital pens" out there which automagically scan and OCR your notes as you take them, ready for immediate upload. To pick a technology at random, it looks like "Livescribe" does this.

Maybe someone here has tried it out and can comment.



Cheers,
Roger

[mommoe436]

I use Evernote. A quick solution would be to scan the paper notes as soon as you are able and store in Evernote. I know Evernote also has the ability to record, but I have not used that feature.

[Oogiem]

Lately, I've been taking new notes on paper and later transferring them to Evernote. That's time consuming and I fall behind during busy times.

SOunds like a perfect application for scanning with OCR and then just editing the results to ensure accuracy and store those notes in Evernote.

[cwoodgold]

Just ideas: ignore them if you want.

You can ignore the raised eyebrows. (Or if you can't, I hope you can ignore this message from me.) Or raise your eyebrows back at them, even higher.

You can volunteer to take the minutes of the meeting, and then you have an excuse to have the laptop. You can email out the minutes just as the meeting is ending.

When you want to type something, you can say something like "That's a good point! Let me get that down!" and then type frantically for a minute and then stop. I would hope that would lower some eyebrows a bit. After you do this a bunch of times you may be able to get the same message across without speaking up and interrupting the meeting: just saying "Oh!" while raising one index finger, or (once they've gotten used to you doing that) just raising one index finger. Or if you want to consult your notes, you can say "Oh, I think I have something about that in my notes ..." and then quickly search in your computer, then say "There it is!". Sometimes read out information from your notes that may be relevant to the meeting. Also spend a large part of the meeting ignoring your computer and paying full attention to whoever is speaking.

There may be a way to use a computer such that everybody at the meeting can see the screen. At our meeting room, I can log into a computer that's projected onto a big screen on the wall that everybody can see. I can have my own email and stuff projected onto the big screen. You have to be careful not to display private stuff, but if you do something like that and use it to take notes, at least people can see that you're focussed on the meeting. Maybe they would even suggest corrections if you misunderstand something and type it in wrong. You might be able to get a similar effect with a laptop if, from time to time during the meeting, you say "Look at this!" and show a couple of people sitting near you what's on your screen. For example, asking the person next to you whether you'd spelled a name right in your notes, or something. Or display something in large font and turn the laptop around to show everyone. Or mutter as you type in, just loudly enough that people know roughly what you're typing, until the ones telling you to be quiet overcome the eyebrow-raisers.

[cwoodgold]

Wait! I know! I know!

Learn to type without looking at the laptop.

[ellobogrande]

I used to walk into meetings with paper and pen and took lots of notes (former training as a journalist) which would then be filed according to the project and next actions would go into Nirvana.

If you are the journaling type, read on. If not, ignore.

I recall a recommendation that I heard from David Allen himself (on video) that you do not keep one journal per project. He recommends keeping a single running journal for all of the projects in your life. That way the notes are all in one place.

If I remember correctly he keeps two journals: one for his work (everything unfinished in his life) and a separate one for his own reflective journaling.

[DShick]

Thanks to everyone for your interesting and helpful posts. I'm still interested in how others handle this

[cwoodgold]

OK. I bring a pad of paper to a meeting. I write notes. I put an arrow next to anything like an action (or stuff). After the meeting, I tear off the page(s) I used and put them in my inbox. When I process them, I copy the actions onto individual sheets of paper in my system, one page per action, unless I do them immediately. Useful information I usually type into the computer somewhere so I can find it by searching for keywords or looking in a relevant file. I might then put a diagonal pencil stroke across the original page(s) of meeting notes, and put them in my "culling" system (more-or-less per Martin Ternouth) where I'll see them again in a week or so, which can jog my memory and remind me of the meeting as a whole, and I might possibly decide to extract additional information or actions from it at that time. After I've seen it enough times in the "culling" system, I make sure it's crossed out, then use the back of the paper for other purposes (such as those one-action-per-page things).

Sometimes I type in minutes to the meeting, after the meeting, and send them out on the computer typically within a couple of hours after the meeting.

I've tried typing minutes during the meeting, but stopped because it slowed things down too much. Apparently I can write much faster than I can type, maybe because I wasn't using a normal keyboard and mouse, and on paper I can use all sorts of abbreviations. (I have a shorthand writing system which I invented, for example.) Transitioning from talking to writing and back seems to work better with pencil and paper than with the computer. Although I think if I'm just typing straight text I can probably do that faster than writing out the full words. It takes time after the meeting to type in the minutes, but only one person's time, not slowing down the whole meeting. (I was kindof chairing the meetings too.)

[JefftaxCPA]

To add to your excellent comments,

1. When the meeting is completed, I immediately go to my office and send to my CPA tax, accounting or CFP client an email summary of the meeting using Outlook. I like your idea of showing arrows for those items who need follow up actions.

2. If at all possible, before the client leaves, I prepare a summary email incuding all or some of the 5 journalism questions: Who, what, why, when and where. I number the key points in my email. OR,

3. I send myself an email using Outlook:

A. I sort many emails by subject so I make sure that the subject will be easy to find. I priortize with the last name, first initial of the client and if there is a business name, I abbreviate the business name.

For demonstration purposes, let us use the name of John Doe, President of Doe Dental Clinic. I would type into the Subject row, Doe, J DDC reduce taxes depreciation.

B. I list the objective as briefly as I can. In the above example, I am using depreciation as a key word because I have ideas on how to reduce the taxes by taking advantage of the flexible depreciation rules.

C. I color coded what my next action is or who is responsible for getting me information so I can then take the next action. Outlook uses the word "category" to allow people to sort by what David Allen in GTD calls Context.

For example, I have Outlook shortcut keys and colors for context (telephone call F4, computer F5 , desk F6, Waiting For F7, meeting F8, key person's name F1, F2, F3). For example if Mark C is responsbile for getting a tax plan to me by September 1 (I promised client a deadline of September 2nd or 3rd), I might show a due date of August 31st because Outlook will show this follow up as over due on September 1. I use F2 (Mark C)to indentify that I need Mark's help. The color to indicate that I need Mark's help is a dark blue color. If my next action is a call, then I would also include color code for a call.

D. I use the due date feature sort in Outlook for followups. It is easy to sort by due date.

If a follow up is needed beyond 90 days, I copy the relevant email directly to the calendar without showing a specific time. Jeffrey Brooks, CPA, CFP, MBA

[Candid]

Would you be able to bring a tablet with a key board? The nice thing is you could do your typing when you needed to, but most times, turn it side ways in front of you to make clear that you are doing anything with it other than taking notes when you are not typing. It would have much lower screen and profile.

For note tips I like Michael Hyatt's system of marking, this article for a tablet:
http://michaelhyatt.com/how-to-use-evernote-with-an-ipad-to-take-meeting-notes.html

This for hand notes:
http://michaelhyatt.com/recovering-the-lost-art-of-note-taking.html

For the hand version, you could consider using the Cornell system of notetaking:
http://coe.jmu.edu/LearningToolbox/cornellnotes.html

[Suelin23]

I'm suffering the same problems, I tend to write copious notes and this can detract from actually listening into the conversation. A few times I've tried using the laptop in the meeting room but putting it on my lap, so it's not as visible - if you can touch type then you don't need to always look at what your typing so you can maintain a fair bit of eye contact. Another trick that helped was putting the screen all the way back while the laptop was on the table, again to reduce the physical barrier. I think maintaining eye contact is the key issue, which is also a problem with writing notes - I have found people telling me 'don't write that down' even when using paper. Another problem with the computer is the noise of the keyboard is a bit distracting, and would be worse if a lot of people in the meeting did it. However my husband recently bought a new HP laptopf for home that has the quietest keys ever! i would love that.
I find hand writing meeting notes is not so great for long meetings, and typing is a bit better.
Fundamentally writing lots of meeting notes prevents you from being engaged in the meeting discussion itself, so I'm wondering if this approach is fundamentally flawed, and we should be using less words, eg mind mapping the meeting.

[Suelin23]

Where should the meeting notes get stored?

If the meeting is about one project then you can store the notes in the project support file, but if the meeting discusses several projects, which often it does, then where do you store the notes?

[TesTeq]

Where should the meeting notes get stored?

If the meeting is about one project then you can store the notes in the project support file, but if the meeting discusses several projects, which often it does, then where do you store the notes?

Scan and tag with project names. In my opinion the general chronological archive of tagged scans is the best solution to find anything.

[Suelin23]

Do you have them as permanent tags, or only whilst actionable? ie do you add a tag for items requiring follow up, and then remove after the action is complete, or do you leave the tag on there?

[goncalomata]

I have to make some choices but would love to hear what others are doing. Thanks.
Dee

I normally go for volume reduction, minimizing post-processing. Process as you go to sum up and reduce notes. I note separately ACTIONS, which is what most feeds my system.

The other notes, (usually on paper), I file for eventual use if needed. If reassessed later, I try to get rid of "garbage" so I reduce to the minimum. If I read it, it's to transform it into something smaller, usually action-oriented.

Goncalo

[TesTeq]

Do you have them as permanent tags, or only whilst actionable? ie do you add a tag for items requiring follow up, and then remove after the action is complete, or do you leave the tag on there?

In case of paper documents separate Project folders make sense.

In case of electronic documents I don't think that putting documents in folders is useful. You can use Evernote to store everything in chronological order and with permanent tags to categorize it by Project, Area of Focus etc. It works if you don't reuse Project names for different purposes.

No document is "actionable" for me. I can create a Next Action in a list manager with a link to the appropriate document.

[Oogiem]

No document is "actionable" for me.

What about things to read, forms to fill out, official papers that must be signed and/or witnessed?

I would consider all of those to be examples of actionable documents. The action cannot take place without the document as well.

[cwoodgold]

What about things to read, forms to fill out, official papers that must be signed and/or witnessed?

I'm with Testeq here, at least in spirit. The "next action" written in a list is actionable. The document is secondary. Yes, you need it to do the action. You also need your hands to do the action, but your hands are not actionable, for example.

Some people sometimes use the actual document as a reminder to do something with it. (To do what? Is it really doable?) OK. In some cases it might be an improvement to attach a stick-note to the document stating an action such as "fill this out" or whatever. But it's not necessary (and maybe not GTD, I write with a mischievious grin ... how to get the upper hand on this forum) to have a system where documents are used as items in next-action lists. The next-action lists can be made more readable and doable by using words rather than things.

[TesTeq]

I'm with Testeq here, at least in spirit. The "next action" written in a list is actionable. The document is secondary. Yes, you need it to do the action. You also need your hands to do the action, but your hands are not actionable, for example.

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

A form or a document is the Object. I cannot "do it". I need a Next Action on my list to change the state of the Object to achieve a desired outcome. I use available tools to do it (@context).

[Suelin23]

I think of actionable as per the workflow diagram, ie an actionable item is some 'stuff' that needs a next action.

Anyway here's an example of notes from a call I had yesterday from my boss.

19/9/12
Call from Con, he received the PLT briefing note for the 55E cover and will look at it tonight. Overall we don't want to delay the project. Could get odour complaints as easily in March cf January.
Will chat before the LUS lunch.
EA for scientific studies - I'll send through tomorrow morning and can chat about that also.
Comments on TI report? Am working on it.
Hydromodelling - where is DGreer at?
Would be great to get some of that data to DMay to include in his report, send through the plots. Any chance we can feed the report/results through in time?
Con wants segment 7 done by summer - I think that will be difficult looking at the program. Whilst the schedule shows that is possible, they haven't built in any of the inclement weather allowance. Also while it may be built, it probably won't be tested and commissioned by summer. CV wants us to push for that, as then we can say we have built almost half the new cover and therefore built equivalent to the existing cover before removing it.

For example I tagged these items and then put next actions in my NA list:
PLT briefing note - chat to Con
Hydromodelling - call DGreer
EA - draft EA

For me I've started tagging as part of the collection process, and so I can process later (eg at home in the evenings) I can just go to the tags, work out a next action and put that on my list. This type of a tag would be temporary.

The thing I struggle with is how do I put a reminder in my system to tell Con I have completed these things, or how they went, or what the status is if not complete? Do I put them on an agenda list for him? NA list?
And yes, he does want to know all that detail.

[cfoley]

For me, any project planning -- no matter how simple -- belongs in project support material. If my plans are so complicated that I have charts, feature lists, etc then I create a folder for it. If it is as simple as "Tell boss when I am done" then I put a reminder in the notes field of the action or project. Then when I have completed the action or project, I make a new action. It's usually "email boss to tell him project X is completed", but sometimes an agenda item is more appropriate.

[cwoodgold]

I'm asking questions for you to think about, not necessarily expecting you
to post answers in this forum (unless you feel like it).



Will chat before the LUS lunch. ...

chat to Con...

The thing I struggle with is how do I put a reminder in my system to tell Con I have completed these things, or how they went, or what the status is if not complete? Do I put them on an agenda list for him? NA list?
And yes, he does want to know all that detail.

You've listed "chat to Con" as a "next action". You might want to think about questions like these: Is it really a "next action", or is it an "action" but not
"next", i.e. not necessarily something you can do now? If you mean chatting
immediately before the lunch, that's more like an appointment. If you can
walk into Con's office anytime to check whether Con is available to chat,
then it's a next action. You could think about what times of day are better
for that. If it can't be done now, then according to GTD it doesn't belong on
the next actions list, which should contain only things that are doable now
(if you're in that context).

Re where to put a reminder to report back to Con: I think there are some other
questions to answer first. What will be the circumstances that will make it
time to report back? For example, as soon as you finish the last action,
then it will be a good time to report that you've finished. But you also might
want to report how far you've gotten, without having finished.
It probably wouldn't make sense to do that as soon as you start.
When would be useful? Once a week? Some other time period?
Whenever you've finished a significant conversation or other action?
Whenever you've done about 5 things? Whenever you've run into a problem?
After you choose how you'll know it's time to report to Con, then you
can decide where to put it in your system. Remember, only put it on
a next-action list if you can do it now. If you want to do some work before
reporting to Con on it, then reporting to Con is an action, not a next action.
You could put it on the list of actions for that project, to be reviewed
at weekly review. You could decide to report to Con after doing some
specific action, and after that action is done then remove it from your
next-action list and write "report to Con" instead. If you want to report
to Con at regular time periods you could put it on your calendar or in
a tickle file.

Before chatting with Con you might want to list the key points that
you'll want to cover in that chat: things you want to tell him, and
questions you'll need an answer to.

[Suelin23]

I really don't know what to do about chatting. I mean, it's like calling, but the person is actually there in person. I have an @Calls list, but I don't have a chat list, I just list those items on the appropriate context. Con works at Docklands, so 'chat to Con' would be on the @Docklands list. We have open plan offices, so I can see if he is at his desk from my desk. I also have a fortnightly catchup with Con, so the agenda list could work too - give us something to talk about these have NOT been going well. Cried at one recently.

I don't like doing chats or calls, and will always be repelled by any action that starts with Call xxx or chat to xxx.
Maybe I should just email?
But then do I email for each individual item, or a group of items?
I am repelled from sending him emails of my progress as I know he will print these out and keep them. What if he uses them as evidence of my insufficient progess?

[natedowg]

Thanks to everyone for your interesting and helpful posts. I'm still interested in how others handle this

I use a leather folio with a yellow pad, take notes by hand in a meeting, usually 6-10 pages. Then, later type them up with on PC using Dragon Naturally Speaking and microphone. Email them out, (or in my case post to a forum). Then file the paper if needed or recycle. (one time our forum went down and everything got erased)

I was thinking also, in your case, you may try a tablet with keyboard combination. The size will be smaller than a labtop, probably pretty quite, and easier than touchscreen. Asus Transformer comes to mind. As long as others in the meeting know your not sitting there playing Angry Birds, lol :)