Comparing GTD to other systems...

[jkgrossi]

I would love to hear the thoughts of other GTD'ers that converted from another system -

What do you like about GTD?
What did you like about your old system that GTD doesn't address?

I am a FC convert who has been following GTD for a little over a year. There are many things that I like better about GTD, however, after a year or so there are still some issues that I cannot reslove in order to make GTD work for me.

The main thing about GTD that I can't seem to make work (by this I mean make it "trick" my brain the right way) is having my system remind me of what I need to be reminded of at the right time.

Fore example, on my @Next Actioins list I have "change the batteries in my MP3 player". I use my player in the car to listen to audio books during my commute to work. I have the next actioin assigned to the @anywhere category in my Palm's ToDo list. Ok, great... the reminder's in place, I'm all set...

My problem now is I'm in my car dirving home and I want to listen to my audio book; but I never actualy changed the batteries!! I can't figure out why not - the reminder's in place...

The only thing that I can think of is that there is no urgency attached to it...

I know that one of the nice things about GTD is that you are free to prioritize on the spot. For me, this is a problem because when I'm in the heat of battle and going thru my lists, I read the reminder, however, there is always something either more urgent or important than "change the batteries".

My problem is that in order to act on something, I need to have the motivator in my face. I'm not disciplined enough to always check all of my lists at the appropriate time (i.e. when I get home from work all I try to decompress - I don't even bother to check my @home list)...

I'm trying to come up with some sort of combination/happy medium to make the system work the way that my brain works.

Sorry for the ramble; you're thoughts are greatly appreciated!!

Thanks in advance!

James

[Paul V]

Just one simple thought here--I'd put a due date on something like that --maybe make it recurring --with a little lead time to make sure they got changed before the end of their life cycle

sometimes you need due dates :wink:

[DayneB]

GTD won't, on it's own, make you do anything. It will just make it easier for you when you decide to do it.

As per your particular situation, I would assign a due date. Then process as you would anything else with a due date. Once you have written it down and assigned a due date, don't think about it, just do it.

[jkgrossi]

I thought that one of the core ideas behind GTD was that next actions we not assigned due dates. The only items that got assigned due dates were items that must be done on a certain date.

I realize that no system will make me do anything; I'm not looking for it to - my problem is not in the doing as much as it is in the "reminding". If I am reminded to do something (which in my opinion the the entire point of the system) I'll do it. My problem is that if I can't trust my system to remind me to do something when I need to do it, the system is of no use to me.

Going back to the batteries issue, the problem is that I wasn't reminded to change the batteries earlier because I didn't notice it on my list (it was buried there amongst roughly 75 other items that had no distinction from one to another, either). I was reminded of it when I got in my car and went to turn on the player (too late to change 'em now).

I guess the problem is that while changing the batteries may be a trivial issue, it was important to me (so I don't go mad sitting in traffic for an hour). I was bothered by the fact that it "slipped by".

With my old system, the batteries would have died on Tuesday, and on Wednesday's ToDo list there would be a reminder "A - change batteries". On Wednesday, when I looked at my calendar page (has todo's on the same page) I would have saw "A - change the batteries" and realized that it was something important to do that day (didn't HAVE to be done - doesn't belong on the calendar per GTD), but I wanted it to be done. The point is that not just a reminder was in place, there was also a commitment, and I would have been able to listen to my audio on Wednesday.

[Anonymous]

Hi, a few thoughts on your battery problem (and GTD) - no particular order, and sorry in advance for rambling, but HTH :) :

1) Keep in mind that there is a difference between assigning a due date to a next action and putting something on your calendar. According to DA, items should only go on the calendar if it must happen on that day, as you suggest. For next actions that must be completed by a certain day, there's noting wrong with indicating a due date for the item on its appropriate context list. As you review your next action (context) lists, the due date indication should serve to raise the item's profile in your consciousness as you consider what to tackle next.

DA's point about not generally assigning due dates to next actions is that too often people habitually assign "fake" due dates to things, then end up reassigning those dates when they don't get to the item on the "due" date. Why do all that extra work if it's not really due?

Once a next action moves from a context list to the calendar, it's not so much a next action anymore as it is an 'event' that is part of your hard landscape for that day. (There is actually an 'exception' to the 'hard landscape' rule, in terms of using the calendar as a tickler - as long as you are cognizant of what you are doing, you can put something [that you're not ready to make a decision about] on a future calendar date when you want it to be brought to your attention again for reassessment.)

2) Your own statements about being reminded aren't internally consistent (not trying to criticize, just trying to achieve clarity). You say in your second post that if you are reminded to do something, you'll do it. But in your first post you say that you did read the reminder, but always ended up deciding that something else was more important at that moment. If that's really true, then you should feel comfortable with each of those decisions. However, keep in mind that you are the ultimate arbiter of 'importance' for yourself. Given the consequences of not having changed the batteries - severe displeasure, etc. - and given the fact that in your Covey system you would have assigned it an "A" priority (for urgent and important), I suspect that this action deserves more conscious priority than you're allowing yourself to assign it (you could even describe it as a "must" and put on the hard landscape - since you're using a Palm, you could set an alarmed event for a few minutes before you'll be leaving for work the next morning). You say that in your FC there would have been both a reminder and a "commitment" to doing this action, but in GTD there is not - but it seems to me that your commitment to doing it didn't change at all.

3) You also say you didn't notice the reminder while reviewing your lists because it was buried among so many. It's hard to blame the list/system in this case - the superficial problem lies more in the thoroughness (or lack thereof) with which you reviewed your applicable context lists before deciding which action to take next.

The deeper problem lies in the timing of reviewing your lists, and in the reality that you are confronting: you probably didn't review your lists before heading out the door in the morning, which is probably about the only time that "change batteries" would actually jump out as the most important thing to do at that moment.

But that's OK! Given what you've said about yourself, it's probably not realistic for you to expect yourself to do that (I know I can't expect myself to do that - I'm too often rushing out the door at the last minute!), though it doesn't hurt to try to become more vigilant in reviewing them. What you need to remember is that GTD isn't entirely about lists (only very much about lists! :wink: ) - it's really about doing whatever it takes to get something off your mind and trusting that you'll be reminded about it at the appropriate time. If a context list isn't the most appropriate 'trusted reminder' for a particular next action, don't try to force it to be. For this particular action, it sounds to me like a more effective reminder for you would be to use what DA refers (only half-jokingly) to as the "put the thing in front of the door" trick: bring your MP3 player in with you and put it in front of the door so you're going to have to step on it to get out without remembering the batteries!

4) Similarly, keep in mind the "2-minute" rule - if something will take you less than 2 minutes to complete (or 5, or whatever duration you personally find hits the right cost/benefit nexus), DA suggests "just do"-ing it then, because it will take as much or more time to write it on a list, then review it later, etc. In this case, maybe the best thing to do would be to bring the player in with you from the car and change the batteries first thing when you get in the door. (Immediately taking it back out to the car afterwards probably wouldn't hurt either.)

5) Back to your context list for a moment. You say that you put the reminder on your @anywhere list - but is this action truly something that could be done anywhere? It seems to me that this would only be true if you always have batteries with you anywhere you go - which apparently isn't the case :wink: (though, seriously, perhaps the easiest way to solve this immediate problem is to start keeping spare batteries in the car).

It's very important in GTD to assign contexts carefully - otherwise you'll find yourself looking at an item and blowing it off because you aren't actually "standing" in exactly the right context - the right location with the right tools, etc. If you keep your fresh batteries at home, then the correct context would be @home (but then you would actually have to review the list while you're at home - refer to #3 above!). If you put it on your @anywhere list because what you really mean is that you have to buy batteries while you're out and about, then you didn't really define your next action down to the level of detail DA would insist upon - instead, you may have seen "change batteries" on your list and blew it off because you thought to yourself, "oh yeah, I need to buy batteries so I can change them". Again, you would then have to review your @anywhere list the next time you're out and about (or be reminded by the physical player sitting in the seat next to you) - GTD can't do the actual remembering for you, as I know you know.

6) On a similar note, think hard about those 75 items you said the reminder got buried in - are they all really things that you could do anywhere? And that you are committed to making happen (if not committed, then they should go on someday/maybe)?

Or were the 75 items a total from several (or even all) of your contexts lists? If so, be careful about which lists you review when - other than your weekly review (and maybe a daily scan or two), you shouldn't even look at lists for contexts that you aren't "in" (or going straight "to") at the moment you're reviewing them - otherwise you'll get numb to all those items that you can't do at that moment.


I sincerely hope that none of this came off as snide or anything - "writing through" these issues helps me as much or more than it might help you!

Cheers,
Matt

[Anonymous]

Or maybe just buy a car adapter and forget the whole battery thing forever... :wink:

[Anonymous]

Actually, change the batteries is NOT your next action. Where are the batteries? Do you need to buy them still? Are they in the package in your desk drawer? Home or office?

Change the batteries is actually a project.

How about this. Once you know where the batteries are (store, home, office) your next action should be put a set in your car glove box. Then, when you need them you can throw the old batteries out, put the new batteries in and add a NEW action item to your @errands list... Buy new batteries for MP3 player.

Sometimes my "next actions" are not actions at all. They are projects and I am still learning how to break them down to actions.

Hope that helps.

[jkgrossi]

Thanks for all of your replies!

I really think that my main problem with the whole thing is that for whatever the reason (lack of dillegence when looking at my lists, not categorizing next actions correctly, etc.) I don't get reminded of what I need to do when I need to do it. The batteries issue was just one example of many.

I think that my point is that it shouldn't be that hard; I feel like I shouldn't have to think about the system as much as I do.

I realize that I may have been a little vague when I said that if I reminded to do something, I'll do it when in my first post I said that I did read the reminder, but always ended up deciding that something else was more important at that moment. I think that what I meant by it is that whether I actually read the reminder or not, there was nothing there at the time when I read it to make me react to it (whether it be that I had more important things at the time or whatever). For me that's the key - I need something attached to the reminder to make me take action. I find that to be the case with all of my lists. Unless something is knawing at me, I don't do anything about it. Now that being said, I realize that that is a problem w/me and not necessarily the system. Be that as it my, if the system doesn't work the way that I need it to, it's no good for me.

I think that the whole point of my topic here is to hear from others who just took the best pieces of GTD and the best peices of there old systems and melded them together to find something that is more workable for them.

When you break it down, there are some things about FC and GTD that are very similar, if not interworkable. FC has a "Master Task List", and I've found that if you add GTD context categorization to it, if functions relatively the same. Now, on a daily basis, you can pick the most important of those next actions and assign them to a date to make them stand out. For me, that just might be the kicker I need to trick my brain and make the system really work.

[JohnParlabane]

3 things

#1: I imagine that changing the batteries might have taken you less that two minutes. you should have done it when you thought of it

#2: This is a great example of something that should have never even hit your system. If you had just put the batteries in your pocket when the getting was good, that would have been your reminder (unless you really liked the way they feel, and then there is a whole other range of problems)

#3: Headhunter Bill - this is a great example of what should never be upgraded to a project. Using your criteria, "Go to the bathroom' would become a project everyday. "Do I have a bathroom?" "Is it fully stocked with toilet paper?" "Do I have reading material?"


Never give something time to get on to a Next Action list that you could kill in two minutes or less.

Resist the urge to make everything a project!

[Mardo]

Interesting topic. I have already posted my preference for scheduling time for what covey calls big rocks during the week. That is those projects that require at least an hour of concentrated uninterrupted attention. I make an appointment with myself.

The battery issue for me refers to those number of small repeating details in ones life that need to be done on some kind of regular basis and dont. The water shortage in our town has resulted in restricted times for outside watering. My plants get watered more not less. Why? I have a schedule imposed on me. I have a Brita container for drinking water. I know I have to change the filter every three months. I never write down when I change the filter so I dont know when I am supposed to. The batteries in my flashlight get changed after I try and use the flashlight and find they dont work.
This discussion has reminded me of all those minor irritations. Here is what I am going to. Put a reoccuring reminder every ____ months weeks etc for each of those minor items. Once it shows up I either do it that day, two minute rule or assign a date that week that it does get done. For many of you I know that this would be overkill. For those of us who like a structure it means that it gets done with a minimum of stress. I know I need to get my car inspected this month. Saturdays are a horror as is the end of the month for inspections. I have just made an appointment with myself to get the car inspected next week.

[Anonymous]

how about just purchase new batteries 'by the strip' (very cheap in large quantities) at Costco once/year, then always keep 2 extra batteries (for your CD Player, + ?) in your briefcase or backpack. Works well for me.

Also, checkout www.memotome.com... I use it to email me reminders for things that are periodic, but would just clutter the calendar/system (haircut, buy coffee beans, pending Birthdays, etc)

-Steve

[Anonymous]

JohnParlabane - My point exactly. I am not saying make it a project on your list. I am saying that he is confusing a perceived next action with what is actually a project.

The appropriate next action is either @errand- Buy some batteries for MP3 OR @home- grab batteries from kitchen drawer for the car OR @office- don't forget to grab batteries for the car. Bottom line... get some extra batteries into the car.

Go Lions! Whewhooooo.

[jkgrossi]

I really don't think that's the case. My batteries are at home. On my @Home context list, I have "Change batteries in MP3 player". If I have "Change batteries in MP3 player" set up as a project, what is my very next action? Shoud I have "get up out of my chair", or "walk over to the drawer and take out batteries"? I mean, where does it end (or begin for that matter)?

Someone said in an earlier reply "This is a great example of something that should have never even hit your system. If you had just put the batteries in your pocket when the getting was good, that would have been your reminder (unless you really liked the way they feel, and then there is a whole other range of problems)" When, in your opinion, was the "getting good"? When I was in my car drivning home (this is when the initial thought occured to me)? How would I have put the batteries in my pocket then? I have batteries at home, so I just put "Change the batteries" on my @home list. If it didn't hit my system, the only time I would ever remember to do it is when I'm sitting in my car.

I guess my real problem is one of dillegence. Apparently, I need to scan my lists on a perpetual basis in order for my reminders to work. That being said, I just can't help but think that it would be much easier to manage a list of a few "Key" things that I want to do on a given day than to scan through a list of 75+ plus items every few minutes (yes, my @home list is that big). To me, a list of 75+ items is just too big to keep the most important things on my radar.

[Anonymous]

In the morning, I look over my task list and pull out the items that I either need to do today or am likely to be able to do, based on context. I just write it down on a pad I carry around...I'm not too high-tech, although I do use my desktop system to keep track of everything. The list might include: Edit Jeff's piece, charge batteries, drop film at photo place, call vendor X, etc. Things that have NO CHANCE of getting done are left off the list.

[rossw]

I'm new to all this, but would it help if you took 50 or 60 items off your @home list and parked them somewhere you'd see them at your next weekly review?

It seems a bit drastic, but it sounds as if right now you can't trust your @home list to get done.

I'm toying with tagging actions with "high energy"/"low energy" needed markers. Has anyone tried this?

Regards

[Jane M.]

Hi rossw. No sure if you were refering to my post (above) in yours, but...

I don't do as you suggest because I need to be reminded of all of my @home list items daily, not weekly. I might even review it again in the evening, and pick out two or three things I could knock off or should take care of. What I don't need is to look at the whole list every time I think, "what's next?"

[jkgrossi]

The only problem w/this is that now you're back to some kind of prioritized list (which is not essentially bad).

That was actually the point of this topic - to find out if the majority of users still feel the need to have some sort of prioritized, daily list (not just a list of next actions). The kind of things that are important, or that you want to keep on your radar.

[jkgrossi]

It's actually kinda funny - no one here who has posted a reply has actually answered either of my questions:

What do you like about GTD?
What did you like about your old system that GTD doesn't address?

Everyone's dwelling on my batteries...

On the bright side, it started a good discussion!

[ScottL]

I do use prioritized lists of todos. I have asked Jason about this--there was a recent post right before the recent board change along similar lines:

http://www.davidco.com/forum_topic.php?id=50

Jason wanted to think it through and will be getting back to me.

I use Dtbk4 with @call, @ home, @errand, etc. Under each to do category I make priority one things that need to be done this week. If it is date critical, I put it in the calendar section. I review the priority one items several time each day, and the whole category once per day (or two).

I have been using a David Allen system since....about 1991 so I can't comment on strengths of other systems. I can tell you that besides the above issue two other issues that seem to crop up frequently are:

1. Covey type high level items (50,000 in GTD terms) roles, values, etc. This can be dealth with by listing roles, etc (I think David called them areas of concern) and during your weekly review asking yourself if you need to do anything in these areas.

2. Handling projects, especially complex ones e.g. there is a post on the board now of someone who needs to keep track of the project steps to give his boss progress reports.

What I like about GTD: many many things... things generally get done faster then before, very few things slip through the cracks. The waiting for category is very helpful, as was buying a labeler.

[vegheadjones]

I agree; only recently have I started to park more things in my someday/maybe list, which I review weekly. Anything that I truly don't think I will get done this week goes there. This makes reviewing my action lists much easier, and gives me more time in the day to get things done!

[Mark Finlay]

James, your first post has the answer - adapt the system so that it works the way your brain works. If that means replicating electronically an aspect of your FC methodology, I say go right ahead, and put "change the batteries" (or "buy/find batteries"...) on your calendar, then go ahead and get it done. If you don't do it that day, move it on as you would with FC - it'll take 2 secs to do that elcetronically & the psychic RAM won't be nearly as badly affected as sitting in traffic for an hour without music. In my experience you'll either very soon do the action or happily "relegate" it to the next action context lists

So its not 100% "pure" GTD - big deal. It sounds to me that it is important enough to you to merit being on the calendar, and clearly you're not going to put everything on the calendar.

But whatever you do, don't tell the GTD police, or they will cite you for a violation of the GTD Code, Chapter X article Y

Hope this helps

[mhm802]

I'm new to the board, but have lurked for a long time, (love the new look!) and I've used GTD for a couple of years now, with some modifications. I'm paper-based (I need the tactile and visual sense of paper and ink)

GTD is a great system, but I agree that we each have to customize it for our own needs/situation. For a while, I got stuck in thinking that I had to do everything the GTD way and I was getting frustrated because some things just were not working for me. But as soon as I realized I already had some good and effective systems in place, I gave myself permission to take GTD and make it work for me.

What I Love:

--the GTD process of processing all that paper
--the Weekly Review (two hours a week saves 2 DAYS work, I'm convinced)
--keeping my calendar pristine and hard-edged
--maintaining a master projects list that holds everything (actually two; I keep separate lists for home and work)
--identifying a next action for everything so that nothing sits unprocessed or un-thought-about
--making/keeping lists on lots of things, just for fun

What I've modified/customized:

--I too need to schedule big chunks of time to work on projects in depth. My mind/work style often is more effective when I'm focused on one project, even if I'm utilizing several different tools/modalities (e-mail, thinking, drafting, number-crunching, telephone). This works well for me and I find I can make a lot of progress in these focused sessions. If I deconstruct a project's actions too much, I often find my progress on the project becoming too disjointed. Similarly, if I only pick one next thing, the project doesn't move forward as quickly as it does when I work in concentrated chunks.

--Context-based next action lists are overkill for me. Most of my projects have multiple next actions that could be done in any order, and often in different ways. (example: I might need to contact client X, but I could do that via phone or email and often don't need to determine the method ahead of time.) And when I think of one next action, I usually think of an additional half-dozen. This produces instant and continually updated project plans, and I want to write all these actions down once, together on a project plan list, rather than on separate context-based lists.

I basically use the time-frame of the coming week as my context, and keep two lists: one home-related tasks, one for work. I will add to them during the week as things come up, if I know I need to do it that week. Otherwise I'll add it to my weekly review pile, or immediately to my projects list (2-minute rule). The lists are side-by-side and visible together. I often make home-related calls from work, or draft a proposal or contract when at home, and do errands for both when I'm out and about. So it works OK for me -- I just have two Next Action Lists to work from each week. And the open loops get caught in my Weekly Review.

Flexibility is what makes GTD so unique and so powerful.

[GeoffAllen]

I'm new to all this, but would it help if you took 50 or 60 items off your @home list and parked them somewhere you'd see them at your next weekly review?

It seems a bit drastic, but it sounds as if right now you can't trust your @home list to get done.


I think this is an important point. The original question was "where's the urgency?"

The answer, I believe, is that the "next action" lists must be jealously guarded and contain only "urgent" items, or at least items that will be done very soon. I know I have a tendency to put a lot of someday/maybes on the lists. I have to keep reminding myself that only simple, immediately doable items should be on the next action lists. Everything else is either a project or a someday/maybe.

So, in this case, "Get new MP3 batteries from drawer" should be an action on @home, with the expectation that it will be done today, or at least ASAP. "Do something about the paint in the bathroom" shouldn't be there. It's someday/maybe (or maybe a project if I'm committed to doing something now).

Geoff, who struggles with this a lot!

[pd_workman]

I don't prioritize my next action list by importance, but I do by urgency. If I cannot do it right now, it is not a next action and won't be on my current list. Either there is something else that needs to be done first that will be on my list, or it cannot be done until a certain date, and it will be forward-dated.

Most of my todos are undated. The ones with increased urgency/priority are dated and are at the top of the list. If something must be done today (because of urgency or importance) it would be dated today and sorted to the top of the list.

[pshammer]

I liked what Jane had to say about her use of GTD--make it your own. Use what you like and discard what doesn't seem to work for you, but try it first.

I have discarded several of David's categories. They don't work for me. I find that the @Action, @computer and @waiting for categories are just excuses to bury things where I will forget about them and then get bit later when I don't deal with them.

The biggest help that I have found with GTD is developing in myself the committment to taking action. I am currently fighting the problem of lots of items on the next action list that are aging. Many of them genuinely have to be done, but they just sit there getting bypassed and this drives me crazy. I need to get better about putting them in someday/mayber and then discipline myself to do the weekly review and then assign them to next action.

I was a Covey-ite before and still am to some extent. I like the concept of actions based on principles and deeply held values. The problem for me was I got stuck contemplating my values and feeling real good about it, but never got things done. In reality, the real mission of the moment is to make the phone call, write the letter or do some concrete thing and not some highminded piece of literature no matter how unified I feel with it.

Hope this helps.

[frieki]

James, I agree with Mark that about adapting the system so that it works the way your brain works.

Here is a different option that might accomplish what you need without having to put such a task (change batteries) on your calendar.
I am not sure what technology solution you are using (paper? electronic?) but if you have any categories available you might consider adding a new 'context' called "Before Leaving" and assign 'Change the MP3 batteries' and similar tasks to it. Then get into the habit of checking this new context before leaving home. You could also use/check this context for before leaving work or any other place that you want to habitually check for "Before Leaving' tasks.

For me, Home is too general a context and I find breaking it down further into "When" zones helps. After all this is what we are already doing with @Computer for example. The best time for me to see/do these tasks is WHEN I am at my computer rather than having them clutter up my @Home (or @Work) list. The best time to see/do your example “Change the MP3 batteries” task may be “Before Leaving”.

Or you could call the context something like “Transitioning” so you could include tasks that you want to do immediately ‘after arriving at’ somewhere as well; for instance as soon as you get home, but before you relax into your decompression mode. So then you would just get in the habit of checking the “Transitioning” context before leaving and after arriving at home, work, and/or your car. (This might require a reminder alarm at first until it becomes a habit.)

In the above post, pshammer mentioned that he/she doesn’t use some of David’s recommended contexts. I think adding/subtracting as many contexts as you need to make the GTD system work for you is not only ‘permissible’ but is probably at the heart of GTD, which David Allen re-emphasizes in his post at http://www.davidco.com/forum_topic.php?id=14.

HTH,
Frieda

[rossw]

If we need to find a way to filter our lists, it would seem to make sense to start with the criteria for choosing actions:
context - we already have separate lists for each context we consider relevant, whether this is location, tool or (for some of us) project
time available -
energy -
priority

Most of us naturally start with the LEAST important of these: perhaps we could think about a simple (H/M/L) flag for the amount of time the task should take, or the amount of energy we'll need?

[pd_workman]

I find that I know whether I have enough time for something just by looking at my list, and I know whether I have high or low energy (and whether it is a high or low energy task) by my gut reaction to approaching the task right now.

[Anonymous]

A few comments:

#1. If you can change the batteries right away, then just do it.

#2. If you feel you must do it during the day, put it on the calendar.

#3. 75 items on your @home list is way too much, you should put away 50-60 of them on your Someday/Maybe list.

[Anonymous]

Boy do I share the frustration of what to do with lots of items on any given action list. If I can shift into GTD-cop mode for a second, given a few minutes I could show you the exact sentences where DA states that a project is adequately planned when **every** next action that can be taken without a predecessor action being taken is in an action list. (If these are committed to projects, then in strict GTD terms, these are all active next-actions, not someday/maybes. Next actions are to be done as soon as possible, but they are to be done. Someday/maybes are just that...things you're not sure you're committed to doing yet.) These lists can be **long**.

Example: In my last job I was assigned to 19 different project teams (each dealing in mulitmillion dollar acquisitions, and each having many "projects" in GTD terms) and serving on the senior leadership team--in a completely different area of expertise--for the same several hundred person global organization (again, more than a few projects in GTD terms). I wasn't using GTD at the time, and I don't think my job was uniquely complex in the annals of human history, but any next-action lists derived from these projects would have been neither small nor "someday/maybe". These weren't "I'd sure like to learn to surf someday..." (Even though I probably FELT that way a bunch of times...grin.)

If there's a risk to GTD, it's how to ensure currency with all these next actions without risking one getting lost in a huge list. (Urgency can easily overwhelm importance, in Covey terms.) Relatedly, someone on another board spoke of needing six (6) hours to do the weekly review. That's insane (not the person, the situation that required it). That's essentially most of one productive day of work spent just "getting organized" every week. At some point the psychic angst of overlooking an item would have to be weighed against the angst of losing most of one day a week to just keeping track of what's going on.

So, to make a long story short (too late): I don't have all the answers, but it would appear the system (and probably any system) has some limits. My suggestion is to make the system serve you, and not the other way around, noting the trade-offs you make in doing so...

[Anonymous]

Well, this is what I do. Things that must be done today, go on my calendar, or on my ToDo list for today. Things I want to do, but do not have to do today, go on my context list.

It seems to me that if your computer is not a place where you get anything "done" that you don't use it as a context area.

It also seems to me that a weekly review is to analyze what has been done for the week, and what must be done for the next week. Anything that cannot reasonably happen in that time frame is not on my context lists. Either it is a future step in a project, or it is captured on Someday/Maybe. For awhile, I divided Someday and Maybe into separate categories. Even David says his Palm categories are a "work in progress", so find what works for you. 75 things on one list would not work for me, period.

If I needed to be reminded of batteries, I would put that reminder in a place that I "trust" would help me to remember it. And then, I guess I would work a bit harder at review my context lists when in that context.

I was into Covey too, but the truth is, his book is much more about relating to others than getting tasks done. There is no contradiction or even opposition between the two. Covey helps you reflect on your values, GtD helps you implement them. What I have found is that without a system like GtD to lean on, Covey is almost useless. Lots of good ideas, but little implementation is what happened to me.

What I can say is that after years of Covey et al, more of what I value (Covey helped me sort that out) has gotten actually acomplished in my life in the last 6 months, than in the previous two years.

Thank you so much, David Allen and Team

Gordon - in Canada

[JohnParlabane]

This is a fantastic discussion!

As far as getting that huge "Next action" list done

I think the biggest thing everybody needs to remember that one of the biggest things about GTD that everybody forgets about, is that is is a system that "naturally and dynamically evolves for each individual user". It is a framework for us to build on. As we go along, we notice things that are not working well in the system, and we develop safeguards and mirco-systems to counter the issues.

Here is an example:

I use Palm vanilla to-do list to organize everything. I too was finding that my urgent phone calls (@ phone) were getting lost in the shuffle. I needed to find a way to "Trick" myself to make sure all the big important calls always get done.

Here is what I did

#1: I prioritize all my lists using the "1 2 3 4 5" in Palm. Some stuff is just more important than other stuff - period

#2: If a call does not need to be done until a certain date, but does not HAVE to be done on a certain date, I date it forward on the to-do list.

#3: Here is what my @ phone list might look like on my palm

1 Call Mom to wish happy birthday
1 Make dentist appoint
2 Call to close Anderson on lease deal
2 Fax Mortgage paperwork to refi company
2 make appointment at garage for tune-up
3 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
3 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
3 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
4 pull info from the web about Gooey.com
4 order bug-zapper from amazon.com
etc...............


My big trick (that works for me) is the "@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@" nonsense in the middle

Obviously the priority 1 and 2 items make perfect sense, but what the heck is the "@@@@@@@@@@@@@@"

that, in my mind, is the "Canyon". Anything that is a priority 1 or 2 has been brought "across the canyon" and needs to be done in the near term. Once it has been brought across, it can't ever go back to the other side. There is never anything in my system that is a "3' priority. Priority "4' and "5" is just general @ Phone next actions.

The big benefit of tricking myself this way is

#1: I can see at a glance the really important stuff

#2: I don't groan when I look at my huge Next Action list every day. We all hate looking at the list, don't lie, it's huge.

#3: I have a good shot at getting all my stuff that is "across the canyon" done in a day and that is very rewarding and motivating. There is no change that I could ever get my entire @ calls Next Actions done in one day or even close. It goes on forever and just will get worse


Now,

I am not saying anybody should use my technique, I am not going to write a book called "Across the Canyon", go on the lecture circuit, or write software. This is my trick, helps the GTD framework work well for me

get your own "tricks" that motivate, reward, and move you forward

Hope this helps

[pd_workman]

http://www.davidco.com/tips_tools.php?id=32

According to the workflow diagram, once you have decided what the next action is, you can:

a) do it (2 min)
b) delegate it
c) defer it
i) for me to do specific to a day or time (calendar)
ii) for me to do as soon as I can (next action list)

So there are two ways to defer. You can put it on your next action list if it is something that you are committed to doing as soon as possible. Or you can put it forward to a specific day or time. If I am not committed to doing an action "as soon as possible" (whether you take that to mean today, this week, or this month) it should not show up on your next action list yet. It should be put forward to a specific day or time.

Someday/maybe, on the other hand, is non-actionable items.

Pam

[Jason Womack]

After a seminar a while back, someone had an interesting way of summing up our workshop. She said, "This really makes me aware of what I've said 'YES' to!"

Each one of us is ultimately responsbile for creating or allowing all of those "actions" to land on our lists. Too many projects is actually a good thing! I mean, I would have concern if my project list was empty!

Essentially, our work encourages (gently???) you to actually see what you've allowed into that 10 acres of your psychic space. Whether we write these things down or not, their ours AS SOON AS WE SAY YES.

So, I see further proof of becoming efficient. Any problem I have comes down to one of two possible roots:

1) I don't know what I want; or
2) I know what I want, and don't know how to get it.

(I took that from someone I know, Steve Snyder...thanks Steve!)

So, if those are my two, basic, problems...I really have two solutions!

1) Make it up
2) Make it happen

(Thanks David!)

IF your lists are too long, look at them from another level. Really, take the altitude analogy and do a monthly review!

From the 40,000 foot perspective (3-5 years from now) what ARE the projects you'd keep? Are there any you'd toss onto the someday/maybe list, or ditch altogether?

I remember when I first got Workflow Coaching in 1997. At the end of the two days, I had made an inventory of over 150 projects. That next month, I made some hard decisions. Two years later, I switched jobs (same career, different teaching arena). Today, I've been working on levels I only could consider just 18 months ago!

Best wishes,

Jason
jason@davidco.com

[eek]

jkgrossi,

I think I have two ideas for you that may prove to be very helpful.

#1 - You *seem* to be suggesting that the GTD method does not allow the use of "priorities"... this is incorrect. The GTD method just stresses that a "Priority" must be considered after context, time available, and amount of resources... once these 1st three issues are met then Priorities come into play. I use priorities on all my GTD lists with great success. The priority numbers on my Palm ToDo list are just one more way to section my data. If I only have a few minutes to do something, and energy is low... I go straight to my priority "5" items and knock a few off.

#2 - For every Project on my "Project List", I also keep a "Project Memo". This memo is something I look over at each Weekly Review. This is a place I can put actions and ideas that I *plan* on doing but don't plan on doing in the next few weeks. This keeps my "action lists" from getting huge but it keeps these items so I see them at my weekly review so they don't slip through the cracks.

I have been doing this with my GTD system for a while know and it has been very successful. Good Luck!

Eric

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that if your computer is not a place where you get anything "done" that you don't use it as a context area.

Gordon - in Canada[/quote]

A fellow Canuck - eh!

Is Computer only a "place"? DA doesn't restrict the use of Contexts to Locations. He says a Context is: "...either the tool or the location or the person required to complete it". Specifically, he states: "if the action requires a computer, it should go on an 'At Computer' list". I treat Computer as a Tool, not a Location. Agendas are "People Context". I believe the primary purpose of using "@" prefix is to identify Action Items and thus to sort them to the top of the alpha listing of Categories. (I am open to correction if I got this wrong.) So the word "At" shouldn't necessarily be taken by its literal English meaning.

People in this thread have talked a lot of sense about personalizing the GTD method, and my point is that since I stopped thinking "At", and started thinking "When" (When I am out in the car, When I am talking to Mr. A, someone said the equivalent of: When I am about to leave ...), I have gotten much more use out of using Categories. BTW "When" still translates into "@" on my Palm :)

Andrew

[chinarut]

I'm new to all this, but would it help if you took 50 or 60 items off your @home list and parked them somewhere you'd see them at your next weekly review?

It seems a bit drastic, but it sounds as if right now you can't trust your @home list to get done.

I'm toying with tagging actions with "high energy"/"low energy" needed markers. Has anyone tried this?

Regards

I use a @peace category...something I certainly relate to low-energy and actions that contribute to my well being.

[chinarut]

I would love to hear the thoughts of other GTD'ers that converted from another system -

What do you like about GTD?
What did you like about your old system that GTD doesn't address?



What I like about GTD is it's ability to commit to being in action, avoid analysis-paralysis, and adaptation to current communcation paradigms and technologies (ie. email, vmail, palm)! Being someone who's been very computer-centric, GTD has done wonders bringing my physical organization systems to a whole new level (long live the tickler!). For my electronic organizational systems, I find that I organize my actions in my palm/PIM in a whole new way and have a higher sense of trust in my system and in the end, in other people.

I am also a FC convert and what I feel very strongly about is their roles-based approach in their compass. I do believe that roles constantly shift in and out of our lives. The source of inspiration is based on our defined roles - who we're being, the people we interface, and the results we promise to them. Does anyone else share similar thoughts?

[Jason Womack]

What I like about GTD is it's ability to commit to being in action...

It was fascinating to read this again. On Friday, I was delivering a seminar to a group in San Francisco. Halfway through the seminar, someone said, "you know Jason, this system really makes you make decisions on everything."

She went on to say that the very concept of "having to decide" was big, and that she didn't know if she wanted to do that.

I've maintained that the real value for me in the GTD methodology is not the organization per se. Instead, it is the ability, within minutes, to take something new, imagine success, and make a decision about an action that - if and when taken - will get me closer to completion.

[mochant]

Is Computer only a "place"? DA doesn't restrict the use of Contexts to Locations. He says a Context is: "...either the tool or the location or the person required to complete it". Specifically, he states: "if the action requires a computer, it should go on an 'At Computer' list". I treat Computer as a Tool, not a Location. Agendas are "People Context". I believe the primary purpose of using "@" prefix is to identify Action Items and thus to sort them to the top of the alpha listing of Categories. (I am open to correction if I got this wrong.) So the word "At" shouldn't necessarily be taken by its literal English meaning.

People in this thread have talked a lot of sense about personalizing the GTD method, and my point is that since I stopped thinking "At", and started thinking "When" (When I am out in the car, When I am talking to Mr. A, someone said the equivalent of: When I am about to leave ...), I have gotten much more use out of using Categories. BTW "When" still translates into "@" on my Palm :)

Andrew
Andrew:

I agree with you 1000% and I love the "When" approach (the Zen of When?). "When" I'm "at" the computer isn't related to my physical context at all as I carry a laptop around. So @Office means the resources I need to do something on the computer are "at the office" and I'll do that task "when" I'm there. Same for @Home.

It can get a little blurry. I remember a fairly big discussion with DA at the seminar I took about "@HomeComputer" or "@WorkComputer" which felt pretty clumsy to most of the people in the room. So, like a lot of other aspects of the system it's personal and you need to adapt the concept to your own circumstances.

--Marc

[arthur]

Ok I had to respond to this older discussion, and a good one at that. Here is a link for a Battery Holster Keychain :) Somebody may be interested? Also a good site for pens and gadgets

http://www.thewritersedge.com/twe.batteries.cfm

[stargazer_rick]

I hope that I'm not breaking protocol here, but since I'm a regular contributor to the discussions here and Arthur brought this up instead of me, I'll go ahead.

If anyone is interested in the Battery Holster key fob, they can get them much cheaper here: http://www.rsinnovative.com. They are the exact same thing. I know because I'm the one that invented it and TWE used to get them from me. I think they are a little over priced on it so it has never sold well for them. This is also one of those products that was a great idea at the time of inception (during the days of the Palm IIIx), but by the time that it got to market most handhelds were already rechargable. :( (This is what I often refer to as "A good idea poorly executed.) Oh well, maybe there will be some other popular consumer device one day that requires folks to keep AAA size batteries with them at all times.

[ceehjay]

Hey, Ricky! This was a great idea -- and -- my Audible Otis uses AAA batteries. Otis works just fine for the Audible books, is much lighter weight than my PDA, and is something I frequently carry with me when I'm on the go. (Hey, just another way to keep studying GTD.)

Carolyn

[arthur]

Good post Stargazer_Rick. Save a little bit o'money.