Does a daily to-do list reduce the efficiency of GTD

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

I'm aware some of you are comfortable customising the GTD system to suit your needs. I also realise that David is against the use of daily lists of tasks/to-do items, and I see from reading some post some users actively use daily lists.

My questions is, does using a daily to-do list reduce the efficiency of the GTD system, since the material implies that one should refer to a particular context of your (unprioritised) NA list during discretionary time.

I find that I'm more productive when I have in front of me on paper (a simple notepad works best) a small bunch of tasks to carry out one of the after. If I were to constantly refer back to my huge NA list, even if I refer to just one context, such as At Office, wouldn't I tend to get overwhelmed by the large number of actions in front of me, which I would need to face after completing every action?

Having said that, I haven't tried implementing the GTD system yet to see for myself, but I can't see how this can be more productive to having a to-do list of tasks/action which can be carried out immediately without continuous planning.

Perhaps I've missed something?

Thanks in advance for anyone who can clear this up for me. I'd also really appreciate if Jason could give me a response on this.

Cheers,

John

[Anonymous]

I think everyone has a daily todo list. To play it by ear and according to the context you're in is not very efficient.

There are projects, meetings, etc. that must be done today and they can only reside in one other place than ones todo list or calendar - your head! This is the one place where "write it down" doesnt seem to apply in the GTD methodology.

Why is that?

[Rainer Burmeister]

Why is that?
Maybe because there is still that "doing your work as it shows up"-thing.

Rainer

[Anonymous]

Many seems to think they are doing better with a daily to do list. I may also think that you get more focused when you have a goal for what to do one day. If you have all on context list you do not have a "goal" for that day. - And this is very intresting what is best. A daily to do list or not. (I think daily to do list).

[Rainer Burmeister]

My questions is, does using a daily to-do list reduce the efficiency of the GTD system, .....
John,

having tried both (working with and without a daily task list) my experience is that the daily task list reduces my efficiency, but enhances my effectiveness and sense of accountability and responsibility. Without a daily list I can get done much more, though I might not know what I'm doing or if the decision of my boss was very smart.

Although I still use my daily task list in order to prevent me from overwhelm , I more and more tend to write down appointments with myself in my calendar and reduce the use of the daily task list.

Rainer

[Anonymous]

I find that if I do not have a daily todo I tend to think, well it's on the list it will show up. Eventually. With the to do, I have a way to move forward. Without it, I find, that stuff just sits on my list. Sometimes, I just have one category on my todo list, such as phones. Just sitting down and planning on working through some stuff, cleans it up and clears it out of my mind. and with the pda I just go through a review and move my choices from phone and computer and whatever to today and then those for sure get done and depending on timing I can tackle a few others on the category lists while I'm at it.

[Rainer Burmeister]

If you have all on context list you do not have a "goal" for that day.BJ,

it seems like we all need at least a minimum of that "I feel in control of my life" -feeling at work. And focusing on a daily goal (of which you know you can achieve it) is one of many ways to get that "feeling in control"-feeling.

Rainer

[Anonymous]

Here's an idea...

Take a post-it note and write "Focus Board" at the top of it, followed by 3-5 things (projects/goals/areas?) you want to focus on for today. Then stick this in front of you somwhere.

That way, you're not tied down with a strict list of tasks to do, but you still have a clear outline of what you should be focusing on during the day.

That would blend quite well into the GTD system, wouldn't it?

[Bellaisa]

I don't keep a daily to-do list anymore, but it took me a long time to give it up and every once in awhile I still feel a need to do one.

The whole point behind GTD, I think, is to not have to rethink things. When you get done with the daily review, you should have a things that stand out that you either want to focus on or get done that day. In order to not have to rethink those ideas, it sometimes helps to jot them down. Once you've completed those items or if you have an odd bit of time that those items don't fit into, you can go back to your NA list and figure out what you want to be doing given your context.

The problem I was having with keeping a daily to-do list is that it was leading me to not trust my system. I would come in in the morning and dump things out of my head onto a to-do list and not put them in my system and do a daily review - then things started falling through the cracks. Stopping a daily to-do list forced me into doing a daily review and trusting my system more.


In short, my opinion is that it is ok and long as you don't start substituting it for a daily review because then you start doing work as it shows up.

I think Jason did do a post on this topic a couple of weeks ago. I'll see if I can find it.

[Bellaisa]

I found Jason Womack's recent posting on this topic - the URL is http://www.davidco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=960&highlight=

It was on 5/6 and under the thread called "I can't stop planning my day"

I've pasted it below, but you may want to look at it in context of the conversation. In point 1, I think he is bascially saying he routinely does a daily to do list.

********************************

Here's how I think about it:

On a day-to-day basis, here is an example of someone's routine:

1) As soon as you're not doing anything else: check your calendar (What HAS to be done today?) Here, I will put down things from my action lists that I really "plan" to do today.


2) As soon as you have discretionary time (given your calendar):
- process IN, or
- check @action lists and pick one to work on, or
- work ad hoc (do something that is NOT on a list)
My goal here is to make sure the system is up-to-date every 24-48 hours.


3) At least once a week...do a weekly review! Make sure you can work within numbers 1) and 2) and be comfortable. Every 7 days, I want to get back to "clean, clear, current, and complete." This means looking at the last 4 weeks, the next 4 weeks, scanning any checklists ("How am I doing with client communications?" etc), reviewing projects/next actions lists, etc.

[Carlos]

What works for me a weekly focus NA list. Typically, my NA’s do not have due dates associated with them. For NA’s that need to be done on a particular day, I add a due date for that day. For other NA’s that I want to get done that week, but no particular day, I set a due date of that Sunday. I then filter my NA list to show only tasks with a due date within the next 7 days. This becomes my weekly to-do list. If I’ve completed the NA’s I must do that day, I can move on to the ones I wanted to complete for the week, and then to my complete NA list.

I use Outlook, so I’ve set up my filtered one-week task list to show up next to my daily calendar.

One nice thing about this is that is I can set due dates for NA’s that are due further into the future, and they will automatically pop-up on my weekly filtered view. An electronic tickler file.

Now it’s Friday afternoon, so on to my weekly review,

[Rainer Burmeister]

In short, my opinion is that it is ok and long as you don't start substituting it for a daily review because then you start doing work as it shows up.
Bellaisa,

I fully agree with your statement (that one I quoted above). My daily task list must be the result of my daily review. If not, I would start doing only the work as it shows up and forget about the remaining 70 % of my job.

Rainer

[Anonymous]

DA talks alot about people overwhelmed with things that demand attention and thus the best approach is to have a flexible agenda that one can act on based on the days events - a kind of Akido, if you will.

I think he wants to emphasize a philosophy of dealing with these demands rather than trying to be Nostradamus each morning and having it all blow up in your face. In between those two extremes is the approach of setting a few items up on the list that you really should try to knock down each day (if the bottom doesnt drop out). I favor the middle road.

Some people are going to be much better at managing their days without daily todo lists than others - my wife manages a large enterprise swimmingly without any lists.

[jmarkey]

Hello all. I just finished the latest Barnes & Noble GTD course, where the subject of the daily to do list came up. Below are two questions posted followed by Jason's response. I hope you find it helpful (I don't think he'll mind that I re-posted it here).


* Does that mean it's bad GTD habit to make / update at least once a day a" daily task list"?

no

* Do I take a risk doing the below process?

no


Over a year ago, I started a morning ritual that I've practiced to (almost) perfection.

I call it the "Morning Review," and now I'm teaching it in my GTD seminars.

It takes me no more than 5 minutes, and it sets the tone and tempo for the day. Here it is, how I do it, step by step:

- Check my calendar: What information and actions have I already put on the calendar? Lots of meetings? Teleconferences? Am I traveling through multiple airports?

- Review my action lists: I've found this is most valuable the days I'm delivering seminars or coaching. I go down each list, and decide "on-the-spot" if the item can wait until after my day of work. If it can not, I have two options. Do it now, or put it on the calendar for lunch. Every now and then, I need to spend 10 or 15 minutes of the lunch break handling a phone call, or running an errand.

- Scan my projects list: I just look down the project list asking myself if there's an action I might want to take while I'm "here." (And, "here," is relative - am I in my office, Washington DC, or flying across the country?) Every now and then, I pull something off that list because of where I am, or what I'll be doing that day.

On seminar delivery or travel days (and I had a combined 150 of those last year) my goal is, within 5 minutes, to let myself off the hook for the next 8 or so hours. I want to deliver a seminar and trust that everything can wait, I've seen it recently, and I have an inventory of work to do when I'm done.

[moises]

Sometimes someone needs to whack me over the head with a stick before I get it. Just in case there are others like me, let me excerpt from the quotation above from Jason Womack:


Here's how I think about it:

On a day-to-day basis, here is an example of someone's routine:

1) As soon as you're not doing anything else: check your calendar (What HAS to be done today?) Here, I will put down things from my action lists that I really "plan" to do today.

. . .

He tells us that he puts on his calendar a list of things that he plans to do today. One might wish to call that a to-do list.

[andmor]

I think it is clear - and I think Coz alluded to this - that if there is anything in GtD that resembles a ToDo list, it's the Calendar. What you put in the Calendar represents firm commitments with a time frame. Action Reminders are there to jog you into action, but only when you have time. (As far as I am concerned, Time is the primary context / agenda.) My problem is that I often have too much available time and "ASAP" really doesn't register urgency with me. Therefore, I try to load the Calendar with things ToDo today (along the lines that Jason describes).

I think a lot of confusion arises from using an application called "ToDo' to list Action Reminders, which makes you think they are ToDo's, but they aren't really ToDo's in the same imperative sense as the contents of a Daily ToDo List.

Having said that, some people seem to be perfectly happy to have a lengthy daily task list that they don't expect to complete, while others find it depressing to have to roll forward incompletes (as DA warns of) and might create a daily agenda that is not sufficiently challenging.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

The problem I was having with keeping a daily to-do list is that it was leading me to not trust my system. I would come in in the morning and dump things out of my head onto a to-do list and not put them in my system and do a daily review - then things started falling through the cracks. Stopping a daily to-do list forced me into doing a daily review and trusting my system more.

Bellaisa, could you be kind enough to outline what your daily review looks like? I read Jason's, but I'd like to see your idea of how a daily review should be.

Thanks!

Markus

[Bellaisa]

[quote=Bellaisa]
Bellaisa, could you be kind enough to outline what your daily review looks like? I read Jason's, but I'd like to see your idea of how a daily review should be.

Thanks!

Markus

I think it is about the same. Once I'm settled in, it goes somethign like this:
1) I gather up stuff for my inbox - tickler file, anything I've brought from home that needs to be processed (which would be in a designated folder in my briefcase), mail from my mailbox, unload my digital recorder, take messages off of voice mail (but I don't usually respond just then unless it is only a quick reply), glance at my email for anything that might be a true emergency.
2) look my calendar for appointments and anything I've written down that has to happen on that day only. This gives me an idea of how much time I have available for non-meeting work
3) I look over my NA lists and either make a mental note or a physical note of what I want to get done with my open time. According to strict GTD, I would write thsoe down on my calendar, but I typically just put in on a post it which I keep stuck to my desk and toss and the end of the day.
4) I get done what must be done right away (mainly prep for any meetings that day) and then start on my inbox/email.

It really only takes a few minutes, but after years of years of diving into my email as soon as my computer was on, getting into a daily review before starting anything else was a hard habit for me to get into - probably even harder than the weekly review. This is a little dorky, but I had to keep a checklist at first.

It took time for me to learn that my job isn't answering email, my job is managing my areas of responsibility. Being responsive to email is just one form of that. I also had to "train" people that I wouldn't be answering their email as soon as I walked in the door and to not use it as instant messaging - if an issue was truly urgent, then they needed to call or come see me, mark the email as such. I haven't gotten ANY complaints from anyone about me not getting back to them in a timely manner.

Really, I was just using email as a way of doing work as it shows up instead of taking charge of my work.

I seem to remember reading someing in GTD that says that a typical person will have 300-500 hours of work in the NA lists. Whew! No wonder it is overwhelming. But I've discovered as I've being going along that if you are consistent in using the system, you can have all of that in there and be fairly relaxed because you know you are making the best choices you can with the time you have. It also has helped me a lot with setting better expectations with myself and others about what I'm able to take on.

Sorry for the long post! These have been good reminders for me.

[compwiz3]

My simple answer is no I don't think Daily To Do lists reduce your efficiency in getting things done.... I think the problem is that a lot of ppl use Daily To Do Lists ineffectivly.

The tradional way to use them is to post a message say in the morning or prior night listing tasks that you need to get done for the day. I honestly think this is quite silly. I personally use a Daily To Do list service and I think it's most helpful to most tasks whenver I think of them... so for example, yesterday I was working on programming something (Facebook Application), and I thought of a really cool idea... I added this to my To Do list for the next day. Then I checked my e-mail and noticed an e-mail I thought I should respond too... I decided to add this to my To Do for tommorow. In this way, I try to build up my to do lists. It's a lot more flexible and a lot less annoying then just trying to remember to add everything in the morning...

And I know they're a ton of daily to do list thingies to choose from, but personally I like http://www.zotodo.com/ - Daily To Do (http://www.zotodo.com/)

It's just simple and stuff... but really doesn't matter too much what u use as long as it's simple and as long as the system doesn't get in the way of actually doing anything.

[compwiz3]

I just realized I ressurected a really old topic... :)

[Julian]

Makes one wonder if there really is an "old topic" :-)

[moises]

http://www.davidco.com/mindmanager/mm_replay.html

Transcript from around 27:45


Sometimes, you know, as good as you get at all this stuff, life can still get crazy. And many times I need to sit down and just say, "OK, I need my sort of daily to-do list." Now, many people know that I'm kind of against daily to-do lists. I'm not actually. I'm actually for them. You just need to be able to unhook them. You might need to redraw them 43 times in a day. Which is fine.

Even the devil can quote scripture (or, in this case, David Allen). Apart from this appeal to authority, I personally find there are often good reasons for me to create a daily to-do list.

[babysnowbyrd]

I've adapted my GTD system with templates from DIY Planner (you can google it). There is one template that has a daily schedule with an "actions" column next to it. If something needs to be done at a specific time, I write it in the actions column next to the time and draw a line connecting the schedule with the action. If there are other things that HAVE to be done that day, but not at a specific time, I write it in a blank space. It goes right along with GTD because any commitments that HAVE to be done a certain day should be on the calendar.

Of course, reviewing is key here too. If an action is not completed I assess why it didn't get done, and what I want to do with it. I can "throw it away," put it on my someday/maybe, or move it forward to a future day.

At the end of every day, I check off items I got done on my schedule and on my NA lists (some things are double-listed but that's ok with me.) Then I look at what else needs to be done on my NA lists and I put them on my schedule according to when the best time would be to do them. During times where I don't have something specific, I start tackling other items on my NA lists or I review the projects I'm working on.

It's working very well with me. I think having it tied to my schedule makes a big difference. It makes it so it's not just another list of things to do.

[SGTM]

I like the quote from David, I think flexibility is the key and adding one when they are needed increases effectiveness. I also think spending the time doing it as a routine reduces effectiveness when they are not always needed. I prefer to keep it flexible and simple.

[bishblaize]

wow, longlasting debate.

My two-pence; If im at my desk all day, and my day specific actions are all done, I see nothing wrong in picking out the handful of tasks from my Next Action lists that have the greatest priority. If sketching them out again helps focus your mind, fine.

The important thing is not to take them off the Next Action list, otherwise if something comes along that turns the day on its head, you're going to be going back through your old daily to-do lists to find the actions to bring forward.

[randystokes]

I've been waiting for Kelly or one of the other coaches to jump in here, but I can't resist. First, a disclaimer: I'm not a coach, but I play one around my office.

I consider myself fairly black belt about GTD. Here's what I do:

I keep my calendar and all my action and project lists in Outlook 2007, with the GTD Outlook Add-in, on my laptop. The first thing I do when I get in in the morning is open up Outlook, which automatically opens to show my calendar and, on the right side, all my next action and project lists. I scan my calendar (in week view) as a reminder of any appointments that day, as well as any all-day events or information I put on that day. If there was something I know had to be done that day (and would die or get me in trouble if it wasn't), it's on my calendar that day as an all-day event.

After scanning my calendar, I then look at my action lists for the context(s) I'm in: @Office, @Computer, etc. I also scan @Waiting For to see if there's anyone I need to nudge. Only then do I process emails. I stick strictly to the two-minute rule as I do so. In fact, I generally spend less than two minutes per email -- I get bunches, and I'm generally able to get them into the right places pretty quickly.

Finally, I start "doing." You all know the drill. And you also know there's no mathematical formula for deciding which of the many next actions to do first, then second, then . . . Keep scanning your lists. If you've done the thinking up front, you don't need to re-think your next items to decide which ones to do. Now you're just working off of punchlists.

The problem with a daily to-do list is that at any minute you can get something new that makes that list worthless. Your daily to-do list may hold pre-defined work, but that's only one of the three categories of things you need to be doing. Sometimes the ad hoc stuff that shows up requires a complete reshuffling of your day and renders your daily to-do list obsolete. I also have a real allergy to writing and re-writing the same stuff on a daily to-do list.

I also do a weekly review (weekly, believe it or not), which is key to keeping things current. I also regularly take a few minutes each day just to see what's coming up on my calendar and look at my project list to see if something new needs to be add to my next action list. Just a quick scan, not a complete review.

Of course, your mileage my vary, but after years of working with GTD and testing ways to do things, I have discovered that -- surprise -- the system as David describes it works amazingly well for me.

Randy

[randystokes]

Silly me, I forgot to mention that each morning as I'm waiting for Outlook to load I also check my tickler file! :p

Sometimes these things are so "routine" you can forget to include them in a description . . . I guess that's what David means when he talks about getting your system on cruise control.

Randy

[bishblaize]

...you don't need to re-think your next items to decide which ones to do. Now you're just working off of punchlists.

I think there is some re-thinking or at least some rapid reassessments involved. David Allen's assertion that he thinks once a week is very much tongue in cheek - executive decision making you can save for once a week, but you still need to be assessing and reassessing on a daily basis. I like his analogy about preparing for the football field - you plan all week, so that in the game you can react instantly as situations change.

A static to-do list wont help, but if I find out that suddenly a key staff member is going away for a month and I have half a dozen things that I need to speak to him or her about, and some work I need to complete before I do, then I need to be looking through my lists to pick out the tasks related to that. personally I will stick these in my calendar rather than make a new to-do list since i can do that with a shortcut key in onenote/outlook, but if I was on paper Id need to define them differently.

Another similar point on to-do lists that occurred to me yesterday - how granular do you want to go? If im thinking about writing a report, my Next Action isnt going to be "turn on computer" or "pick up pen". Last night I had to prepare for a meeting with our full board - my Next Action was "Print Papers for Trustee Meeting" (i had all the papers on the computer for printing). But when I came to do it, I still sketched out a quick to-do list of the 7 sets of papers, so that as I went through I could mark of each one as done, just to make sure I didnt forget any. It would be daft to have a Next Action "Print off Agenda" "Print off Minutes" "Print off diagram" - Id spend more time typing than doing. But when it came to it, a quick written list on a post it really helped.

[bishblaize]

I stick strictly to the two-minute rule as I do so. In fact, I generally spend less than two minutes per email

Oh yeah another quick point, I think processing can take more than two minutes, its the tasks that you shouldn't be lingering on. I recently read a huge report on the way to and from work over the course of a week & made a load of notes in it. After that I had about 100 next actions or projects/SDMBs that came out of it (I write NA and circle it, so I can tick them of as I go back thru - works well). It took me about 30 minutes to go through it all and put them all in my system.

I wouldn't save processing as a task unto itself, you need to get the stuff in your system asap, so when you do a review you know its current. If you had a truly gargantuan bit of processing, like one of those filing cabinet sized corporate contracts, that might be different of course.

[Layla]

Great thread!

I wish I knew before that having daily and weekly (and monthly etc) lists is okay with GTD! I somehow thought it was not true GTD and tried to do with contexts only, didn't work for me! (had too many NAs and projects/maybe projects and got lost in them..)

I'm still learning - having tasks on context lists and daily list seems a great idea, not to repeat stuff indeed - might try that!

It's also important to treat lists as 'guidelines' and 'preferred action' and not obsess too much about them (I sometimes lost them and only then remembered to do stuff and felt sort of guilty about it!:))
It's still actually best to be accountable to someone to actually do stuff :)