Using an mp3 Player to Leverage Focus and Vision

[CosmoGTD]

__________________________

[kglade]

Coz:

What you are doing sounds compatible with Shad Helmstetter's "Self-Talk Solution." He has a couple of books and tape sets of pre-recorded material. In one of his books, he has suggestions for making your own recording. You might want to check it out.

I am reading my first Albert Ellis book. I got the idea from you. Thanks.

Ken

[Scott_L_Lewis]

Coz wrote:
I am currently experimenting, with great success, using an mp3 player to amplify my Focus and Vision. I came up with this idea, while looking at some current technical psychological literature about using “endless loop” cassette tapes for clients to experience “flooding” to overcome PTSD. They would make a short tape, in the way that was instructed, and then listen to this tape for about 45 min, REPEATEDLY for a number of weeks. (They have an entire system for doing this, which would take 40 pages to explain).
Coz,

I'm curious. How long have you been doing this? Have you noticed the positive effects increasing or decreasing over time?

Also, can you provide a reference to the literature that describes the flooding process?

[CosmoGTD]

Some good info on this "Flooding" technique, using an endless loop cassette can be found in "Thoughts and Feelings" Chapter 8, by McKay and Davis et al. There is lots of other great info in this book as well.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1572240938/104-2385013-2675952?v=glance






I'm curious. How long have you been doing this? Have you noticed the positive effects increasing or decreasing over time?

Also, can you provide a reference to the literature that describes the flooding process?

[jmarkey]

Coz,

Would you be willing to share a sample portion of your script?

Jean

[kglade]

Which Ellis book are you reading?


I'm reading Guide to Rational Living.

Since this is a little off-subject for DA, do you know if there is a discussion forum re: Ellis and similar others?

Ken

[jmarkey]

Coz,

Thanks for elaborating. I think I will give it a try.

Jean

[Anonymous]

I think it sounds very interesting and will be curious to hear how it unfolds for you. Mostly, I think it sounds like like a lot of work up front. I do think that there is something to cognitive theory though.

[spring]

Keep us posted on what you learn, Coz. I'm getting an iPod as a gift soon, and I'm looking forward to experimenting with your technique with my new toy.

[Anonymous]

Its just I am not in the market for an MP3 player at that moment (not that I haven't toyed with the idea).

When I do get an MP3 player--- this sounds like something I will try to incorporate into my system/philosophy.

Thanks for the inspiration

[Paul@Pittsburgh]

Coz

Why has your description of what you were doing with the MP3's been edited out?

Paul

[ceehjay]

Too bad you took it down. I had gone back to read it a couple of times because I needed time to process it.

It leaves the impression that you were miffed that no one leaped on your suggestion, and it certainly makes the rest of the posts in this thread look quite strange (including mine).

Carolyn

[stargazer_rick]

I agree with ceehjay.

I skimmed over your posts back when you first posted them but I didn't read them with a lot of thought and detail. Since that time I've been thinking about how I learn and how I program my own mind to accomplish things and set new standards (i.e. Leverage Focus & Vision in DavidCo terminology.) A lot of setting new standards for me has come through listening to the GTD Fast CDs and the Audible version of GTD and RfA as I commute, over and over.

I signed on this afternoon to find your posts deleted. I don't know if they are applicable to what I've been contemplating or not, but feel like I've been teased here. Oh well, it's your content and you certainly have the right to do with it as you please. I considered it on topic and I believe that you posted it to the right board. There are some chapters in Ready for Anything where it would be approrpiate for the Ready4Anything Yahoo! Group as well. You are welcome to repost it there. I can help you tie it in to a particular chapter if you would like. Alternatively, assuming that you aren't going to hold it for your pending book, I would appreciate it if you could personal message the content to me.

[stargazer_rick]

So its sorta the opposite of GTD, where he says to think of things only once.

Actually, I believe the quote is something like, "There is no reason to have the same thought twice unless you want to have that thought." With the techniques of which you speak, the user WANTS to have that thought again. As I said earlier, I have listened to my GTD Fast, Getting Things Done, and Ready for Anything CDs over and over many times during my commute. Why? Because I wanted to. I wanted a deeper understanding. I wanted to pick up the finer details. Sure, I could have just read the book once, or listened to the CDs once, but then I probably wouldn't be black belt today. I needed the reinforcement. I needed to think about it over and over, and I still do.

I've been researching ways to improve my health through diet and exercise. I am probably one of the most disciplined people that I know yet I have little discipline in these areas. I developed a lot of my organizational discipline from listening the CDs I mentioned above over and over until it all became quite ingrained inty part of my psyche. I'm now collecting material from the web to make my own recordings of information about diet and exercise. I plan to listen to these over and over during my commutes and see how that works. I'm quite optomistic. That is what brought me back to this thread today.

I don't remember the details of the content from your original posts but I think this is similar to what you were talking about. In fact, your posts were probably what inpired that, to some extent anyway, since they were obviously in the back of mind when I though about that two days ago. Obviously there was at least some "resonance". If you still feel that it is anti-GTD then I wouldn't mind corresponding with you off-list about it further.

[stargazer_rick]

Ahhh. I see a fundamental difference in our approaches. It appears to me that your methods and techniques are centered around what is already inside you. My methods and techniques are centered around something very extenal.

A believe that I would find a recording of me trying to alter my own standards with "affirmations" that came from within me to quite boring. I would likely be able to block this out and it would be mere background noise. In that instance there could be some subliminal absorption I don't want it to be subliminal.

I want to feed my mind facts and information. That's what I've done with the GTD CDs. In altering my standards for health and fitness I plan to read information and facts about diet and exercise that I pull from the Internet. For example there is a lot of good articles about walking at walking.about.com. I'm planning to record myself reading some of these articles out loud. Where as I typically only read information once, I don't mind listening to it over and over during my commutes. Going back to the age old parable that "we are what we eat", I want to feed my mind the types of data that I believe will provide the expected outcomes.

I believe that our two methods will likely have a similar number of similarities and differences. It would be interesting to see which one proved most successful in a controlled labratory situation.

[stargazer_rick]

Ahhh. I see a fundamental difference in our approaches. It appears to me that your methods and techniques are centered around what is already inside you. My methods and techniques are centered around something very extenal.

A believe that I would find a recording of me trying to alter my own standards with "affirmations" that came from within me to quite boring. I would likely be able to block this out and it would be mere background noise. In that instance there could be some subliminal absorption I don't want it to be subliminal.

I want to feed my mind facts and information. That's what I've done with the GTD CDs. In altering my standards for health and fitness I plan to read information and facts about diet and exercise that I pull from the Internet. For example there is a lot of good articles about walking at walking.about.com. I'm planning to record myself reading some of these articles out loud. Where as I typically only read information once, I don't mind listening to it over and over during my commutes. Going back to the age old parable that "we are what we eat", I want to feed my mind the types of data that I believe will provide the expected outcomes.

I believe that our two methods will likely have a similar number of similarities and differences. It would be interesting to see which one proved most successful in a controlled labratory situation.

[teripittman]

One idea about the health stuff, I would not suggest putting, "I am stopping eating chocolate bars".
The instant you do that, you will start thinking about eating chocolate bars 24/7! (or coffee, or whatever).
I tried making a list of "foods to avoid" a while back. WRONG!
It makes you crave them. Even caffeine, which I quit about a year ago, I put down, "I stay away from caffeine", so I started to crave it.
Its the power of suggestion.

What MIGHT work though, is to PERHAPS create the negative vision of coffee (or whatever) being a "poison" to avoid. But I have found the "negative" imagery to not be very effective in this setting.
Don't go eat a big juicy HAMBURGER RIGHT NOW! = (salivate).
(hmm, hamburgers...)

Coz

I can tell you what works for me, a low-carber for a year and a half now and 56 pounds lighter. Whenever I feel a temptation, I simply remember the absolute worst one that I've ever eaten. I don't look at a Krispy Kreme and think "umm, delicious warm tasty donut". I think "ugh, gluey, sickenen sweet, slightly salty donut." And I've hit the point I'm not interested in them at all (and I've never eaten a Krispy Kreme, which may make it easier :) )

You don't spend any time up front trying to memorize a list of foods to avoid. You just need to keep in mind at that bad food you've eaten in your life and pull up those memories when needed.

[stargazer_rick]

Well, actually that's not quite what I meant, that's the problem with plain text communication, its very difficult! I actually said I do NOT believe in using "affirmations".
This is one of the problems of discussing a post after it has been deleted. There is no way to go back and see what was originaly said. :cry: :x :cry: :x

[Scott_L_Lewis]

Coz,

I have been working for the last week on outcome statements to record. I logged in this evening to review your articles again, and found that you had removed them. I was sorry to see that happen.

I didn't think that it was off topic at all. GTD is 95% mental. Your contribution was spot on.

You didn't by any chance save that material did you?

[CosmoGTD]

Hi there, yes of course I do have all the material.
But as I mentioned as well, I felt VERY uncomfortable with a number of aspects of what I put up.
I have been studying a lot of different ideas, for a number of years, and a good portion of what I had put up there I felt could be misused.
I don't want to go into all the details here, but as I mentioned above, some of this stuff, as I was outlining it, could be similar to a system of self-generated "Thought Reform".
Now that term might mean nothing to you, but if a person does some in-depth research into that subject, they might know what I mean. That is serious stuff.

The bottom line, this can be very powerful stuff that can be used improperly. I don't want to "suggest" for people to do things that might have negative side-effects.

This may sound melodramatic, but some of the techniques I mentioned I have picked up over the years, and they are extremely powerful, and I could tell you a number of well-known people right now who use these same techniques on many thousands of people, without their awareness, for inappropriate and unethical purposes.
I discovered some of what I was using was taken from that, and mixed in with other ideas from different fields.

Maybe I am over-reacting, but I don't think so. There is a lot of abuse of these types of tools happening right now.
Modifying and rescripting core beliefs, schemas, automatic thoughts, internal images, Identity, and many of the other areas i mentioned, can have a profound impact on a person.
I'll put it this way. We can basically make ourselves believe anything, so this needs to be handled with caution.

[Scott_L_Lewis]

Coz,

I'd be the last person to argue that you shouldn't have control over your own work. If you are that deeply concerned about the material, then I fully support you following the dictates of your conscience.

If you publish more of it in the future, I'm sure a lot of us would be interested in reading it. Please let us know.

[stargazer_rick]

I have been studying a lot of different ideas, for a number of years, and a good portion of what I had put up there I felt could be misused.
Kind of makes one wonder where the world would be if Hitler, Ossama Bin Laden, or Sadam Husein had been aware of the GTD methodologies.

I would expect that most of the folks that are actively involved in studying GTD are too busy doing good in their lives to be concerned with how they will use their knowledge for evil. Likewise, most of the truley "evil" people feel like they already know it all so they won't be studying GTD.

Just my $.02. :D

[TesTeq]

I think Hitler, Ossama, Sadam and other successful (in their evil job) leaders are simply highly motivated and focused. They do not need to use GTD or make lists of NAs because these lists and ideas fill their whole mind.
TesTeq

[Anonymous]

I think the individual mind, making its way through life in the 21st century, especially in the West, is like a minnow in the mouth of the Amazon. We have virtually no control over what patterns and apparent cause-and-effect situations our brains pick up and use; what “certainties”; not to mention other peoples values, principles and goals that we pick up along the way.

Anything that can help us push back the tide a little and install something that we would prefer to have in our minds is worth considering.

However, two problems arise:

1). If our knowledge base is made up of stuff we have picked up along the way, how can we make objective judgements about what is right for us?

2). How can we know that the idea we want to install in our minds will fit into all possible situations in which we are likely to find ourselves on a day to day basis?

The plainest bird or the drabbest mammal fit perfectly into their environments: if you made even a subtle change in them, things would start to go wrong.

Likewise, maybe a seemingly dull/unrewarding/frustrating life is made up of numerous subtleties and undercurrents which, if we try to reprogram one of them, will throw us completely out of kilter in all sorts of unpredictable ways.

Can you have a little self-implanted program running that deals solely with your food intake and ensure that you stick to your diet, while the rest of you remains unprogrammed, serendipitously waiting to see what life will bring us today?

This is not a criticism, I wish there WAS a way to straighten out annoying personal traits – but maybe some stuff is getting out to early for general usage- in bits and pieces rather that as part of an overall life management strategy?

I know this is echoing my previous post “Is goal setting bad for you?” and my concern is much the same: we might not only throw ourselves out of kilter, but also trouble those close to us.

DFE

[Scott_L_Lewis]

However, two problems arise:

1). If our knowledge base is made up of stuff we have picked up along the way, how can we make objective judgements about what is right for us?

2). How can we know that the idea we want to install in our minds will fit into all possible situations in which we are likely to find ourselves on a day to day basis?

1) We make judgements as best as we are able at the time we make them. One way to improve the quality of judgements is to be more thorough and methodical about what we're picking up along the way, but ultimately you will make just about every decision you will ever make with incomplete information.

2) We can't know this. Again, the best you can do is reasonably thorough preparation combined with ongoing monitoring of what results you get from the changes you make. If results are not anticipated or desired, corrections can always be made. After all, if you could change in the first place, you can change again. (Unless of course you change into a corpse. :D )

We don't have total knowledge. We will never attain absolute certainty. If you wait until you attain either one before doing anything, you will be waiting forever.

[CosmoGTD]

DFE, I hear what you are saying. Your thread about Goal Setting being bad for you, is similar to my concerns. But what I am talking about is even going much deeper. Going inside of your brain, and systematically "modifying" your Outcomes, Schemas, Core Beliefs, thoughts, submodalities, Values, Identity, etc, and then doing this as part of a planned, organized system, can most certainly be VERY bad for you. It is extremely powerful, and like anything of this nature, can easily be misused.
I could list 100 examples where I see it being misused right now.

Our minds have been messed with since day one in this world, and we are all being bombarded 24/7 in the world we live in.

So for me anyway, I am going to continue to use the scientific method to approach these things.
If something doesn't work, I throw it out.
If it works, then I build on that.
Ultimately, these types of ideas need to be ETHICALLY tested in control group settings, to see what their effects really are.

[TesTeq]

Coz,
When someone says something like:

I could list 100 examples where I see it being misused right now.

I always say:
Give me at least six examples or three reasonable ones :wink: .
So, what are your examples?
TesTeq

[CosmoGTD]

Hmmm. Without naming names...off the top of my head....
These sorts of ideas are being used and misused in many arenas: advertising, hidden media bias, political persuasion and jingoist manipulation, Cult recruiting, some New Religious Movements, most LGAT Human Potential Seminars (Large Group Awareness Trainings), all systems of Thought Reform, Self-Help Guru 18 hour a day immersion weekends, many so called "self-help" seminars, some aspects of military "training", many New Age Gurus techniques of coercive influence, some Multi-Level Marketing schemes, some psychotherapy systems, militia and hate group indoctrination, terrorist training, misuse of Ericksonian hypnotic techniques being used in Sales and in Mass Persuasion, and many many other areas.

I am going to be blunt.
This thread seems to be going nowhere, and i think i am finished with it. My gut feelings were correct. Wrong place, wrong subject.