Digital Filing System

[yuryg]

Hello Everyone,

I am a new convert (from Franklin-Covey) method. I am a consultant and I work at multiple client sites, and even when in the office the office uses Hoteling so I do not have cabinet space and so on.

What I would like to know if someone has worked out a digital system of storage vs. a file system (for most of the things at least). The problem I would have if I instituted a file system is that I would never have access to them accept at home. :sad:

So what I was thinking of doing is creating a system where I would have an encrypted disk (utilizing PGP software) where I could store all the documents that belong in the files. What I would do is scan them and convert them to digital format, and then file them accordingly.

So what do you think? Has anyone does this, any ideas?

[ProfDD]

You can put a lot in a USB flash drive and connect it at any PC with a USB port. Some security-conscious sites may not permit this put many will. You can, of course bring a Palm, but the volume of data is much lower.

[yuryg]

You can put a lot in a USB flash drive and connect it at any PC with a USB port. Some security-conscious sites may not permit this put many will. You can, of course bring a Palm, but the volume of data is much lower.

You misunderstand, I carry my laptop with me all the time, and my PocketPC PDA. I am fine with the information strategies, as to how to back it up, carry it with me, transfer it to PDA.

What I need is to figure out if anyone else is doing it and what challenges they have.

[whsbpb]

So what do you think? Has anyone does this, any ideas?

So, is the bottom line that you're going to scan paper into computer files (PDFs or TIFs or something)?

If so, MADNESS MADNESS MADNESS!

I started doing that several years ago, using PaperPort. It's just too time consuming and takes up too much space. It *sounds* wonderful, but never worked for me.

*Maybe* you could consider only scanning the subset of docs that you really need to lug around?

--

[kewms]

If you're going to do that, PaperPort is the tool to use. It has reasonable OCR for searches, good annotation tools, tools to unstack and restack the pages of files, etc.

But I agree with the poster who said scanning everything is a lot of work for not much benefit. IMO, if your company expects you to carry paper files, then your company should give you a place to put them.

But they don't agree. Okay. Then I'd combine PaperPort with a ruthless pruning strategy. Only scan things that you are absolutely certain you're going to need.

Katherine

[ProfDD]

I clearly misunderstood and think I still do. Could you expand on your experiences so far ? Some folks might have analogous experiences, even if not a close match to yours.

[Frank Buck]

I guess the reason you want everything digital is that you can take it all with you on your laptop and access to all of it when you are out of the office. Right?

I would examine how often you would need to pull a document on the fly v. the time required to convert your paper to digital stuff. Sure, take with you the paper folder you would reasonablly foresee needing with a client, etc., but I don't think anybody would expect you to take your whole filing cabinet with you.

I would say as long as you have a good system for recording what paper files you need to access when you get back at the office and getting back with people within a reasonable amount of time, you are in better shape than just about everybody anyway.

Frank

[yuryg]

I guess the reason you want everything digital is that you can take it all with you on your laptop and access to all of it when you are out of the office. Right?
Frank

yes the only problem is!! I do not have an office. I am at a client site for a day, a week, a month, etc. It is one after another... so I have no access to documents at all.

[ProfDD]

If you aren't going to be revising a document, you probably don't NEED it in electronic form. A modest amount of selectivity would reduce the number of paper documents worth carrying to a very small number. Paper does have some inherent advantages (very low power requirement, usable in many ambient conditions, multi-user in near-Bluetooth range, etc.). Other papers worth carrying include receipts (for the tax man) and brochures with info you can't get online. They are just being collected and transported to the appropriate stationery files. For the papers you might need to carry and refer to, either project folders, for major groups of paper docs, and an alpha accordion folder, for lesser groups of docs, should do the trick.

[jerendeb]

I am scanning invoices at my job with Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro.
1] Scan about 20 pages at a time.
2] extract & sort in the appropriate folders naming them too

This is time consuming but I usually set it up & walk away while the scan is going on because it is resource hungry. It can take up to a 1/2 hours depending on how many.

I am not sure I like this. I may just have to go back to photocopy of the invoices. (The originals go to accounts payable - these are just my backup copies.)

The concept is very inviting but the end result isn't worthy of the time. I don't have a super scanner either, it's an HP Officejet d145.

If I had to have copies of this kind of stuff & wanted to process them quickly I'd actually consider using a good digital camera. I got a 5 megapixel that does a very decent readable photo of documents. (When I do this I feel like a secret agent man!)

Just my input...

[yuryg]

I am scanning invoices at my job with Adobe Acrobat 7 Pro.
1] Scan about 20 pages at a time.
2] extract & sort in the appropriate folders naming them too

This is time consuming but I usually set it up & walk away while the scan is going on because it is resource hungry. It can take up to a 1/2 hours depending on how many.

If I had to have copies of this kind of stuff & wanted to process them quickly I'd actually consider using a good digital camera. I got a 5 megapixel that does a very decent readable photo of documents. (When I do this I feel like a secret agent man!)


The problem is the scanner you are using, typically for a black and white document it takes one pass scan on a descent scanner (I use a $100 Cannon USB Scanner). The proper resolution is important on the scan, as it shoud take less then 1 minute to scan the document.

The digital camera is not so great a solution, because by the time you get the camera centered properly, press the button and see if it comes out takes more time then the scan SHOULD take.

[Paul@Pittsburgh]

Does anybody have any suggestions for what resolution to scan at and whether b/w is sufficient, or whether grey scale is better. I am looking at the trade off both in terms of speed and also size of storage.

I travel about 30-40% of my time, but being able to access certain info while I am away would be really beneficial, esp. as I can be away for 2-3 weeks before getting back to the office.

Scanning does take time and I am not sure of the value in scanning everything but there is certain critical info and docs that come across my desk that I can see value in scanning - faxes (in and out), regular mail (bills etc) that is worth keeping, certain articles I would like to access when out and about.

Thanks

Paul

[remyc88]

Getting a multi-sheet feed scanner will help a lot. Some of the HP OfficeJets have that feature.

I think if it's just text, scanning at 150 dpi, B&W, is sufficient.

I use Microsoft Office 2003's built-in Scan/OCR features.

[daveklee]

I have a 97% digital filing system. The 3% go into a physical filing system (mostly for receipts).

Here's my process:
1. Keep as much as possible in digital format from the beginning.

2. Keep a "To Scan" folder always with me. I put things to scan and file in there during the week and empty it once a week.

3. I scan using a fast scanner... no flatbeds, no officejets. That takes forever. I think the minimum is the Fujitsu Scansnap (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002AAQIY/qid=1113214080/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-8155970-3719331?v=glance&s=pc&n=507846). It's duplex and fairly fast. I've been using it myself. I would prefer an even fast scanner if I could get my hands on one.

4. Clear digital organization. I have my folders very clearly laid out. I put my quick launch bar on my left side of the xp desktop, so I always see all of my main folders. They are organized so I can get to everything quickly and everything is in order.

5. I make frequent backups of all my files.
a. every few weeks - ms outlook file
b. every month or so - important personal data (about 1 gb)
c. every couple months - all data on my notebook (10 gb)
d. ongoing - other data

[yuryg]

I have a 97% digital filing system. The 3% go into a physical filing system (mostly for receipts).


4. Clear digital organization. I have my folders very clearly laid out. I put my quick launch bar on my left side of the xp desktop, so I always see all of my main folders. They are organized so I can get to everything quickly and everything is in order.

You are just the person I have been looking for, would you mind going in to a system that you use for filing. Is it same as the paper filing system described in GTD or is it something modified. Being on a computer I thing it might be modified to organize it better. Can you please let us know.

[daveklee]

Yes, actually digital filing IS different than paper filing. I'm noticing David Allen's GTD is very paper-centric... and I'm making many modifications.

With digital filing, the key is to be able to get to things fast. It's easier to have multiple levels with digital filing, ie., my docs/pics/college/1999/ . Paper filing seems to be limited in the levels you have.

Another key is you need to differentiate your data:
1) quick reference data - data that you want on you all the time
2) remote reference data - data that you want, but you don't need to access all the time

Ideally it'd be good to have all your quick reference data and some of your remote reference data on your laptop/computer. but, at least your quick reference data (or most of it at least). Remote reference data can be put on CD/DVDs and stored in a place that you can get to when you need to.

OK, you probably want more specifics:
1. Main folders
I have about 10 of these... they are top level. I have a couple work folders, personal, programs, pictures, music, etc.

2. Sub folders
I try to keep my subfolders to about 5-15 under each main folder. When the folders grow (ie., 20) then I'll merge some of them. I want to be able to glance quickly and know where I need to go. Main and sub folders usually are more placement markers. Your sub-sub folders hold most of the files.

3. Sub-sub folders
These are folders under sub folders and hold the bulk of your data files. You can also have sub folders under these.

4. Labeling
This is the key. You want to know where to find your docs. I make the main folders very general so they DO NOT mix between each other. I try to make sure the sub folder are also unique and do not mix with other sub-folders in the particular main folder.

5. Search
I rarely forget where things are because the folder names are my placement guides. I just follow them to the docs I'm looking for. When I do get lost, I can just use the search function on Windows and look for files according to name, file type, date, etc.

[ProfDD]

I have both paper files and electronic files. I don't quite get how they are all that different. Please let me know what I'm not seeing.

In the non-digital world, I have to have separate storage for books, music, photos, files. In the digital world, I have to have separate filing for e-mails, templates (for each application!), documents, music, photos.

In the non-digital world, I have HOT files (including tickler), office files, and attic files. In the digital world I have Outlook active folders, Outlook archive folders, stuff on CDs in a case, and old stuff on floppies in a closet.

In the non-digital world, I have manilla files, inside file pockets, inside accordion files inside hanging files, inside boxes (five levels). It gets hard to manage after five levels. In the digital world, I find it hard to find things four levels deep in a directory structure.

The ONLY advantage that digital TEXT files have over paper text files is that they are full-text searchable. I would have to provide search terms in "see also" inserts to have more than one access point in a file or supplement the paper filing system with a digital index with multiple search terms for a folder. Once audio and graphic files can be "interpreted" by software, then the same advantage might extend to them, too. A single scanned receipt among a few hundred is not all that accessible unless it has been read and processed by a person or really good OCR software.

I'd like to find out that I'm wrong about this.

[yuryg]

What I am finding out is that all the software and most of the GTD system is based on one thing. Either a paper system or the desktop computer.

I have tried variuos software including the plug-ins, the setting up Outlook book, etc, The thing that I really notice is that that is not how things are done anymore (at least I do not think so). We are in a mobile world and the GTD software is more central then mobile.

I have been trying to figure out how I can make the GTD more mobile, and I think I have a solution. It is working the other way around, in other words not from Desktop, or paper files to the digital but from PDA the other way around.

Some what I mean is set-up the PDA the best way possible for the GTD and then adjust the desktop and the paper filing systems to work with the PDA system the best.

I am working out a system using the PocketPC now and some of the software there. Once there will post it on a separate thread.

[ProfDD]

I think you are right: one part of your system will tend to be the dominant one for GTD purposes. Your GTD system would be designed around that component. For many of us, that means a PDA. It could mean paper.

I find I need to be able to do project planning on my old Handspring Visor Platinum. I'd like to be able to use it in my my attic to catalog my archive boxes and in a bookstore to prevent duplilcate purchases. I need the software to do that. I am then willing to accept the limits of the desktop software that allows for relatively seamless synchronization between PDA and desktop. I don't really need Access; I need List to Go. I don't need Word's outline feature; I need Progect, which integrates with Palm Task.

Possible Centers for GTD System

............Paper...........Digital
............-------------------------
Fixed....Desktop.......PC@office
............File system..PC@home
............Rolodex
............-------------------------
Mobile...Day-timer....Palm, PPC
.............Briefcase.....Lap-top
............Index cards..Cell phone
...............................Smartphone

[whsbpb]

Yes, actually digital filing IS different than paper filing.
...
OK, you probably want more specifics:
1. Main folders
2. Sub folders...
3. Sub-sub folders...


Forgive me, but isn't this making the mistake of conceiving a solution to be implemented in one technology (digital) by considering the issues affecting another (paper)?

I'll use another example - email processing and filing. I used to handle them in the fashion you describe. But as my mail store grew, it became problematic for three reasons:

1. The time to click-open-click-open-etc to file any given mail became a problem
2. The time to do the same to find the mail was also a pain
and here's the killer
3. Some mails could easily fit into more than one folder

It was the last one that made me see sense. Why? Because that problem is not a feature of email filing per se; it is a feature of copying a paper system to do the filing. And then I realised that problems 1 and 2 were the same.

Solution - rely entirely on my PCs ability to search and index. It was Ximian Evolution that let me first use search folders. But these days loads of tools have them - Outlook, Thunderbird to name but two. So I now have only TWO email folders (I used to have a ton - clients, suppliers, people, projects, etc all with subfolders).

The two are:

1. INBOX (treated like a GTD-style inbox - handle once, do/delegate/file/etc).
2. FILED (where *everything* goes that I don't delete). Everything. No exceptions.

I've been using this approach for over two years now, and I've never failed to find an email, and rarely taken more than three seconds to find any.

And here's the thing - with the advent of Google Desktop Search, this capability is now available for (pretty much) everything, not just email. Or, if you're a Linux user, checkout Beagle.

Bottom line - there is a rapidly diminishing case (for me, it's now too small too see) for filing on your PC the way you used to file on paper. THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT BENCHMARKS OF FILING SYSTEM PERFORMANCE ARE:

1. Time to file something
2. Time to retrieve it

Google Desktop Search and friends reduce the first to almost zero, and the second to *way* below what you'll achieve manually (not least because even in a well-organized manual system, the physical click-open-click-open-etc time can become a limiting factor).
--

[ProfDD]

If I have a variety of applications that create documents for a single project, how do I find them all ? Think spreadsheets, presentations, photos, datafiles, audio, line and vector drawings, scanned-but-not-OCR'ed documents. I would have to remember all of the applications or undertake the separate step of providing search keywords in, say, the document properties (Microsoft Office is my reference here). Not every document for a project will necessarily have in it the keywords that would enable it to be found by a full file-content search.

Further, the performance of full file-content searches is NOT very good unless they are preindexed. The farther we go outside the realm of text to line graphics, datafiles, photos, scanned documents, spreadsheets, audio files, and so forth, the farther we go back into a realm where we are forced to use filing techniques much like those of the paper world to find our documents.

That is why there is still such force to the paper-world metaphors.

[kewms]

It seems to me that saving project-related keywords when you save the files is not that enormously difficult. Certainly no more difficult than trying to fit electronic files into a paper-like file structure.

To each their own, of course. I file most documents by application, with subdirectories for my major clients, using intuitive file names whenever possible. Still, for anything older than a month or two, searching usually finds it faster.

Katherine

[gunns256]

I have a large library of scanned resources: various math worksheets and instruction sets.

I rarely use Adobe Acrobat unless I'm having trouble with some graphics; I use my scanner's software (Visioneer PaperPort 7) and then print to the Acrobat PDFwriter printer. I scan BW, 300 dpi, and a 2-page file is 70-100kb. The docs look good, and kids can read the small superscripts and subscripts.

Creation is about a minute each. It's fairly boring. I listen to music and play solitaire or minesweeper while I'm doing it: if I try doing anything else, I lose all of the scanning efficiency.

I keep the scanner lid open all of the time, and since I am scanning books, I use a 5 pound weight to keep the book in place.

It's worth setting up the scan for the proper size paper. If you are scanning 8.5 x 11, set for 8.4 x 10.9--you will get rid of a lot of pixel noise that way. I can put up with about 45 minutes (an album) before going crazy.

I've moved PaperPort's main folder from Program Files into My Documents, so that everything gets backed up on a regular basis. (Documents in Program Files folder give me a pain in the neck. Why do app writers continue this?)

Doc filing is fairly easy for me: a worksheet for Algebra Chapter 6 section 2 would file as Algebra/Chapter 6/WS0602.pdf

Best regards
gunns256

[gunns256]

If you've got Acrobat authoring software, then Acrobat PDFwriter installs as a printer.

[yuryg]

If you've got Acrobat authoring software, then Acrobat PDFwriter installs as a printer.

If you do not have the $$$ here are some others you can use:

 PDF995 (http://www.pdf995.com/) – This is ad-ware based PDF converter printer driver for the PC. There is a low price commercial option available that will get rid of the adds. [Free / $$$]

 PDF 4 Free – (http://www.pdfpdf.com/index.html) – This is free software that inserts the tag of the software on each of the pages created. Not the optimum, but it is free. [Free]

 PDF Creator (http://sector7g.wurzel6.de/pdfcreator} is an open source project on Source Forge for conversion to PDF. [Free]

[gunns256]

Paperport saves files in their proprietary .max format. It also allows me to "stack" pages, that is, to group several scans into the same document. The .max files are not that large, and I get the 70-100 kb .pdfs when I create them from Paperport. I'm at work right now, so I can't tell you how large the .max files are.

gunns256

[TesTeq]

I just downloaded a nice looking 30 page PDF that has lots of diagrams, etc, and it is only 212 KB, for ALL 30 pages!
So that's what, 7 KB a page?

And it looks fine when viewed at 150%.

I want to figure out how to do that.
Anyone know how to get the file that compressed?

Coz

I am sure that this document was created electronically (for example printed from Word to PDF writer) and all the diagrams were saved as vector graphics - not bitmaps. If you scan into Acrobat it must save the compressed bitmap of the whole page.

TesTeq

[gunns256]

Is a place you might want to go. However, the amount of knowledge there was too large for me to take in. Acrobat is used extensively by professional publishers and printers; much of the discussion centers around these aspects of the output.

[Unregistered]

Last fall, I decided to make my small business (appliance repair shop) as paperless as possible - I started this past January 1st. I use PaperPort Deluxe 9 with a multifunction network printer/fax/scanner - a Brother 420CN. I scan all paper into Paperports file type called .max. When I need a PDF, say to email to someone, I 'print to PDF' using the Paperport program. Works perfectly. I sort all scanned files just as if I were placing them into a filing cabinet. I still use the search function a lot though. I scan all paper that crosses my virtual desk every day - about 30 pages or so. Takes less than 10 mins to scan, index and file. While doing that, I do things like - well what I'm doing right now - writing notes or replying to emails. I hardly think about paper anymore as it has become such a non-issue for me. If I need something - hit the search button and I've got it in hand in seconds. I have also put most of last years paper into digital format - took me several good weekends of work. I also scan magazine articles, user manuals, quotes from books, etc. which I keep in various files including my GTD Reference and Future files. For backups, I simply use a IOGear ION external harddrive - plug it into a USB port and drag and drop - not sure exactly how long it takes as it is the last thing I do before I goto bed. I have also scanned about 90% of my service manuals. Paperport allows me to 'stack' them in the same order that they are in the book form which makes reading them about the same as reading the actual manual. I scan at 200dpi in greyscale - seems to work the best for me - easy to read - and the OCR program makes fewer mistakes. As I have my laptop with me where ever I go - I have my office/filing cabinet with me also. Although the initial scanning was extreemly time consuming, the result has been a huge time and stress saver.

Todd

[MuseOfLife]

A lot of pdf creators do not support 64-bit OS. Month ago I have discovered Free PDF Creator (http://www.ronyasoft.com/products/pdf-printer/) in the net. It works perfectly on my 64-bit XP.