The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People

[johnw654]

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People

Powerful Lessons in Personal Change was a groundbreaker when it was first published in 1990, and it continues to be a business bestseller with more than 10 million copies sold. Stephen Covey, an internationally respected leadership authority, realizes that true success encompasses a balance of personal and professional effectiveness, so this book is a manual for performing better in both arenas. His anecdotes are as frequently from family situations as from business challenges.
Before you can adopt the seven habits, you'll need to accomplish what Covey calls a "paradigm shift"--a change in perception and interpretation of how the world works. Covey takes you through this change, which affects how you perceive and act regarding productivity, time management, positive thinking, developing your "proactive muscles" (acting with initiative rather than reacting), and much more.


This isn't a quick-tips-start-tomorrow kind of book. The concepts are sometimes intricate, and you'll want to study this book, not skim it. When you finish, you'll probably have Post-it notes or hand-written annotations in every chapter, and you'll feel like you've taken a powerful seminar by Covey. --Joan Price--This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
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mahamnoor1973-post

[Busydave]

I found Covey to be the most idealistic, nebulous, and irrelevant time management writer I have ever read. I will admit my copy was, as the review suggests, heavily underlined on many pages. But whenever I revisited it, I found that it added up to just so much hot air, which vanished after I put it down.

Eventually I dropped it in the trash.

Time management should take us to where the rubber meets the road ... not park us somewhere in orbit gazing down on the world. 7 Habits is not so much a book on time management as a collection of sermons. When you read it you end up feeling like some sort of irresponsible sinner, pummelled on the head for hours with righteous pillows.

The daily organizer is less than useless: you carefully work out your number one priority for the day, focus your energy and enthusiasm on it … then at 2 minutes past nine your table of priorities is kicked over by today’s crisis. What hope have you of refocusing your energies to deal with your new duties?

And when the heck is the right time focus on a priority C3 task?

Covey might be good for Sunday service reflection, but it is a waste of time for real world time management. Reading it actually de-motivated me.

Franklin Covey may have had something good to say at the start, but it seems to me that they are now just another stationery and luggage retailer.

Dave

[bassdrone42]

I totally agree. I read 7 Habits at the suggestion of a colleague. Though I'm glad that I read it, the preachy overtones were way too much to handle.

It has now found a happy place on my book shelf, never to be opened again.

JC

[stsanford]

There is a simple way to incorporate Covey's plan: Weekly planning.

I've read the 7th & 8th habits, and while I didn't find him too preachy, I do ffel there's a lot of hot air, or what I lik to call "feel good speak" - I will admit I do use his Indian Talking Stick analogy when having heated discussions with colleagues and my wife from time to time :-)

I feel that it's important to start at the top and work down. I've totally discounted the A1, A2, B3 thing. (I was just at a Covey workshop yesterday and left at lunch. It just isn't that realistic, but isn't DA's approach similar with the levels of importance???

Here's what I do, and I use the FC software to help with this, but just to help...

Sunday afternoon, I look at what I've already got on my schedule for the next week and place "Block Time" around those appointments and commitments to ensure that I'm courteous and run on schedule. I next look at my mission, core values and goals and do my best to schedule at least 2-3 of these. I give them an estimate of the amount of time I think they need to be completed, or if it's a longer project, a suitable amount of time for good progress. I next make notations of where I may be running behind and schedule a Block (for those of you who have used or listened to Anthony Robins' lectures, my blocks are not an exact correlation to an RPM Block) for Catch-up.

The important thing that I just learned yesterday was to not schedule past 65% of my time, this way you have the option of filling in those spaces with the little fires that crop up during a work week...

Hope that helps,

[Cikub]

I found Covey to be the most idealistic, nebulous, and irrelevant time management writer I have ever read.
Dave


Yeah, 7-Habits is a load of crap.

1 - Be Proactive: Why make life difficult by taking control when you can just wake up in the morning and let things and people happen to you all day long?

2 - Begin with the End in Mind: Actually plan for the future? What a waste of time. The future happens by itself--it doesn't need us to help it.

3 - Put First things First: Why on earth would I want to make room in my schedule for things that are important to me? Besides, my parents got Tivo so I can watch my favorite TV shows any time I want.

4 - Think Win Win: Why would I actually care about what's important to the people in my life. Heck, my mom is my mom. She'll love me forever.

5 - Seek First to Understand: Nah. The more I listen, the less I get to talk.

6 - Synergize: I'm all I need--'nuff said.

7 - Sharpen the Saw: Entropy is the natural order of things. Fighting nature can only lead to bad things.

Yeah. It's definitely not worth my valuable to stop and think about such trivial subjects.

C

PS. Time management is only related to 1 of the 7 habits and even that one has nothing to do with ABC prioritization (in fact Covey criticizes it)

[Busydave]

But my point is, aren’t these 7 habits so obvious that it is an insult on Covey’s part to imply that we need to read them? Is he trying to make out that these are great secrets that he (and he only) has discovered through his own experience? And is he now making bazillions of dollars by packaging everyday knowledge in a style of cover normally reserved for college business books?

Reading the obvious can be a rewarding experience first time round. You start with the (dangerous) assumption that if something is in print, it must be authoritative. So you read on and find lots of things that strike a chord with you, and you underline and underline. At the end you have a warm fuzzy feeling – this writer understands you, and further more, he has defused a lot of your day to day tension and mild paranoia by reassuring you that, hey, most other people feel the same way: you’re not falling behind, you’re not out of step.

But it’s the re-read that tells the real story: a book that gives you even five or six nuggets to apply to the way you do things on a daily basis was worth the money. A book that launches you into a whole new way of tracking your life is a real find. But a book that leaves you saying “Yes, very nice, but I knew all that already” is a waste of money.

[CosmoGTD]

I agree that the Covey 7 Habits thing is not that useful, I see it as a type of Preaching, which lots of people like, but I don't.

As far as the FC software!!!! Don't get me started! I used that junk long ago, and there was an online support forum with so many complaints, that FC shut it down, and deleted a massive archive of info.
Then they moved to where they CHARGE people for software support. Very cynical, build junk software literally full of endless bugs, and then charge the poor folks to try and get it working!

I find Covey to be dealing in selling what philosopher Daniel Dennett calls "skyhooks".

Covey is a good Preacher. I won't go off topic here, but if you look back to Covey's book "The Divine Center" he explains how he is going to translate religious concepts into more secular words to reach a broader audience, and this is exactly what he did, and continues to do.
For those of us who are not religious, this is a big turn off.
Even lots of religious folks have problems with Covey's hidden religious theology, which is embedded in his missionary writings, which frankly, are what his books are about.

http://www.hismin.com/habits.htm
http://www.cephasministry.com/mormon_stephen_covey.html
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c13.html

[mcogilvie]

Yeah, 7-Habits is a load of crap.
....

Yeah. It's definitely not worth my valuable to stop and think about such trivial subjects.

C

PS. Time management is only related to 1 of the 7 habits and even that one has nothing to do with ABC prioritization (in fact Covey criticizes it)

OK, good, you can do sarcasm- always so win-win :). I will freely admit that I got a few valuable insights from Covey's 7 Habits and First Things First books. However, there are many books that are just as inspirational.. and a lot shorter, with less "quantum synergy" and similar stuff. Covey never had a decent approach to daily and weekly work that helped me. Franklin had that, but it ultimately relied on a very disciplined approach to time management. Franklin-Covey teachings today are an amalgam of Covey and Hyrum Smith plus reactions to the changing landscape of work. GTD is frankly just a lot easier at the levels of next actions and projects, and at the higher levels you can pick and choose.

[Busydave]

I think the differences between the main writers lies in their view on life. Tony Robbins urges you to really go for it: get everything you can out of life, at hi-octane pace. David Allen is more serene: get the mind clear, release all that creative energy, be a calm centre in the eye of the storm.

Covey seems to want us to be servants first and foremost. He aligns life’s tangles along the lines of “roles”. These are probably not that different from Robbins' areas of life management. But Robbins wants your relationships to be buzzing, juiced, and fulfilling. Covey, on the other hand, sees roles as categories of selfless service.

While I understood, most of Covey’s thinking, the one topic of his that I could never come to terms with was the idea of “Mission”. It seems to me to be a tragically narrow-focussed way to go through life. Also, it seems to be rich in religious overtones, leaving little room for any other interpretation.

Dave

[kewms]

It's been a while since I read Seven Habits, but I seem to remember that the Mission thing grew out of Covey's discovery that people with a strong sense of purpose are both more effective and happier. Which makes sense.

The problem is that development of a personal Mission is, by definition, a deeply introspective exercise. The process is inherently subjective, but Covey needed an objective (i.e. salable to business execs) approach. What he ended up with was (IMO), pretty much guaranteed to be worthless.

Katherine

[Busydave]

I find Covey to be dealing in selling what philosopher Daniel Dennett calls "skyhooks".

[/url]

That’s an excellent way to put it!!

[tuqqer]

I'm no fan of religion, but I got great value from 7 Habits, and I remember clearly appreciating that here was this Mormon guy who was translating good living into non-religious skills; I loved him for that. True, this was 1990, and now many of those ideas are well-known. But back then, the first time I saw that circle-within-a-circle, describing the distinction between what's in my control and what's out of my control, was a true epiphany. I was grateful beyond words for that insight alone. I'm *still* grateful for it!

I didn't find him too preachy. I took great value from much of the book, and left the rest behind.

As far as sarcasm goes, I actually like it as a communication tool. I chuckled at Cikub's post. No need to fight here.

As I see it, if I get one idea from a $20 book that can make me happier, more productive, make me some moolah, or get me to lighten up or improve my sex life... man, that was $20 well spent. As long as you're not searching for enlightenment or the next messiah, I highly recommend 7 Habits. Some good ideas in there.

[Day Owl]

I'm under the impression that the current trend (fad?) for making mission statements either started with Covey or was popularized by him. Does anyone here know for sure?

Mission statements undoubtedly have much value in clarifying one's thinking or the thinking of a group, but sometimes I think their ubiquity has lessened their force. They seem to be de rigueur for everyone from the CEOs of megacorporations down to kindergarden children. "You're nobody without a mission statement" seems to be the silent message. Any other opinions?

[andersons]

But my point is, aren’t these 7 habits so obvious that it is an insult on Covey’s part to imply that we need to read them? Is he trying to make out that these are great secrets that he (and he only) has discovered through his own experience? And is he now making bazillions of dollars by packaging everyday knowledge in a style of cover normally reserved for college business books?
Your criticism of Covey is unreasonable. In your first post, you say the book is a useless hot air, but now you say it's "obvious." Which is it?

Covey never said that he and only he discovered any secrets through his own experience. He said that he looked for themes throughout published "wisdom literature" and "success literature."

On the other hand, David Allen does emphasize his own experience in coaching "senior and savvy executives."

And it is hard to see how an enthusiast of David Allen's Getting Things Done(TM) can criticitize someone for "making bazillions of dollars for packaging everyday knowledge"! You have got to be kidding.

Exactly what in the book Getting Things Done is not obvious? There is little in there I didn't already know I needed to do. I have a hard time believing that people don't know they need to read all their email and decide what to do with it. Writing things down is hardly revolutionary; the Day-Timer I bought many years ago came with the advice "Think with a pencil in your hand." Breaking projects down into individual steps is not a new idea, either. And so on.

The main value in these kinds of books is to package mostly-known material and maybe a couple new ideas in a comprehensive and motivating way. Perhaps some of the ideas will be new to some readers and thus be valuable in their new presentation as well.


Reading the obvious can be a rewarding experience first time round. You start with the (dangerous) assumption that if something is in print, it must be authoritative.
I don't know which of the 7 habits should be challenged as patently untrue. On the other hand, what about the ridiculous nonsense about Baroque music at 60 beats per minute having an effect on creativity? The authority behind this statement are the equivalent of snake oil peddlers. It is not true simply because David Allen repeats it.


But it’s the re-read that tells the real story: a book that gives you even five or six nuggets to apply to the way you do things on a daily basis was worth the money.
The 7 Habits book frankly discussed principles of purpose, individual character, and the building of relationships. There are many ideas that can be implemented, but you have to apply the principles yourself.

The goals in question are hard to achieve but nonetheless worthwhile. Speaking for myself, I do want to live my life with purpose and integrity, and I do want to build close and satisfying relationships. Applying several of the 7 habits on a daily basis has enriched my closest relationships, and I doubt I would have thought of them on my own.

The 7 Habits book has repeatedly been criticized on this forum as an inferior time-management approach, but it was obviously not meant to be a time management book at all. The only message related to time management was that you must make time, preferably each week, for activities that are important but not urgent. And that you must minimize activities that are urgent but not important, or just not important at all. These principles are pretty much universally true.

After you get the "big rocks" into your schedule, Covey assumes the rest will fill itself with the urgent stuff of life. Covey assumes that you know how to get new tires for your car and that you will just do it. David Allen noticed that people don't necessarily know how to get new tires and elaborated on this in great detail.

Allen, on the other hand, assumes that people will always intuitively know what their priorities should be. But it's clear from reading the many questions on the forum that many people don't. And GTD offers no practical help for that problem. It was interesting to see David Allen's blog post about his recent epiphany about priorities, which is strikingly similar to a question Covey posed in the 7 Habits book years ago.

Neither book contains everything you need to know for your entire life. They address entirely different levels. One addresses the level of character and relationships. The other addresses the level of tires and ticklers. Of course low-level details will appear more practical because by definition they are very concrete. That doesn't mean that high-level purpose is useless. Both books have their place. The two books do not address the same levels of life and should not be compared.

[andersons]

Mission statements undoubtedly have much value in clarifying one's thinking or the thinking of a group, but sometimes I think their ubiquity has lessened their force. They seem to be de rigueur for everyone from the CEOs of megacorporations down to kindergarden children. "You're nobody without a mission statement" seems to be the silent message. Any other opinions?
The problem I see with mission statements is that most of them are just not true. The value of a good mission is obvious, but organizations shortcut the process of developing one. Worse, some organizations can't present their true mission because it does not sound marketable or appealing -- such as "Create massive wealth for shareholders, especially for top executives." The true mission is inferred by examining the past behavior of the organization, which is clearly at odds with the mission printed on the plaques on the walls.

Another problem with mission statements is that a person or organization may have no idea what they really want to achieve at that high level. I certainly couldn't come up with a satisfying mission when I first read about them, because I was too young and didn't know myself well enough.

But when a person or organization does have a true and worthwhile mission, the power is amazing. Google is an example; so far, they have been completely driven by their mission.

[avrum68]

Funny...

I really enjoyed 7 habits. Provided me with juice/depth that biz school avoided. I've also tried implementing GTD. My overall impression...eh. My basic nature is the same, as it was, before Allen...before Covey, etc.

I've discovered that when I'm partnered with great people i.e. folks who have skills different than my own, work from my passions - and not my greed, deal with/handle fear, exercise/meditate...then all is well and most self-help/time-management is superflous.

[MikeC]

Remember the 7 Important but not Urgent characteristics?
Prevention
Planning
Re-Creation (Vacation time!)
Empowerment
Relationship building
Preparation
Values clarification

I know that I have problems believing that I have the time to schedule these things. Implementing GTD fall into this category too. When's the last time you did your tax return in February? Or Anything weeks before it was due.

So I think there is some merrit with Covey in these areas.

[CosmoGTD]

Dennett contrasts "skyhooks" with "cranes".
Cranes are ideas built from the bottom up, whereas skyhooks are ideas just picked out of the air, and are hanging there in the sky.

Covey has picked a bunch of theological skyhooks, and calls them "principles". Covey would no doubt say his skyhooks are built from metaphysical cranes from his so-called "wisdom literature". (Wisdom Literature, is code for Religious Revelation, which is Skyhooking Inc.)

The reality is that what Covey is selling is a type of religion, which is why its so popular! People love that stuff, especially in the US.

But does it work?
It might "sound good" in theory, but does it actually work?
Did it work at Franklin-Covey? (no!)



That’s an excellent way to put it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmoGTD


I find Covey to be dealing in selling what philosopher Daniel Dennett calls "skyhooks".

[Busydave]

Your criticism of Covey is unreasonable. In your first post, you say the book is a useless hot air, but now you say it's "obvious." Which is it?

What I means is, if you buy and read a book that simply restates the ordinary background givens of being human, it is a useless book. But Covey gets praised because he states the obvious in such a worthy way. You will finish the book feeling servile and apostle-like, but soon your other ordinary likes and dislikes come back into view and the Covey message evaporates.

There is nothing new there apart from his preacher-like approach (which differentiates him from the more self focused angle of most other writers).

I was thinking about this discussion on the way home last night: I would LOVE to be able to devote chunks of high quality time to my important, non-urgent roles on a weekly basis, but I know this is never going to happen.

I get up at 6 a.m., and everything I do then is focussed on getting into work at 9 a.m. in a reasonably presentable condition. I generally get home around 9 in the evening, and I must be in bed by 10 p.m. to be ready to get up at 6 again.

My son is nearly 8, and after he hits 13 he won’t want to know me. The months are flying by and the window is closing rapidly. I can’t find time for him, let alone the other top role relationships.

Life in 2005 is a matter of trying to keep your head above water, a matter of survival.

The only hope in hell for the Covey approach is if we get non-urgent, important tasks onto our project lists, and try to get to the next action if an unexpected window of time comes up. But there are no big slots of time up for grabs: they don’t exist any more. There is no room for big rocks.

This is why Covey is irrelevant in the twenty first century. Ok, he can point out all the things that are wrong with life today. But life today is not going to get any better. Nothing short of dismantling the global stock market is going to change that.

[kewms]

I was thinking about this discussion on the way home last night: I would LOVE to be able to devote chunks of high quality time to my important, non-urgent roles on a weekly basis, but I know this is never going to happen.

Why not? My own experience is that I can make time for anything that I truly consider important, because if it's really important I'm willing to sacrifice something else to do it.

For me, the key difference between Covey and GTD is that Covey shows you where to go, but GTD shows you how to get there. (Compass vs. map? Maybe.)

Katherine

[avrum68]

This is why Covey is irrelevant in the twenty first century. Ok, he can point out all the things that are wrong with life today. But life today is not going to get any better. Nothing short of dismantling the global stock market is going to change that.

Covey is more relevant than ever before. As more and more of my friends live lives similar to yours, it's dawning on them that something's not right. Is it the tv? Is it that 2nd SUV they're still paying off? Is it the move away from my family to take that job that provides me with $15000 extra a year? Covey's message is that without a profound paradigm shift (for most of us this occurs due to an illness, natural disaster or some other major event)....we get the same ol', same 'ol. And the same 'ol is making many sick...emotionally and physically.

Covey lacked a day by day approach to living out his vision. And his software (while holding tons of promise) sucked. But his ideas will outlast Allen's because they address issues related to family, community and soul.

p.s.
As an aside, I've taken up an interest in meditation and signed up for a class at my local hospital. Seems the government is funding meditation workshops as an alternative to medicine/therapy as a means to handling stress/anxiety and pain.

Guess what? The room was a mob scene. Guess what? There's a wait list that doesn’t end till Fall-Winter 2006. And the number one concern during the q &a...folks don't have the time to commit to regular meditation classes because of their hectic lives (the very lives that are probably making them sick and in need of anxiety/stress workshops).

[avrum68]

Covey has picked a bunch of theological skyhooks, and calls them "principles". Covey would no doubt say his skyhooks are built from metaphysical cranes from his so-called "wisdom literature". (Wisdom Literature, is code for Religious Revelation, which is Skyhooking Inc.)

The reality is that what Covey is selling is a type of religion, which is why its so popular! People love that stuff, especially in the US.


You state this as fact. In reality, this is your opinion.



But does it work?
It might "sound good" in theory, but does it actually work?


Actually yes, it worked for me. The weekly check-in, roles, etc., are almost as integrated into my nature as say...responding to posts on BB's.



The more I work at this the more I realize that what is most important are ground level Next Actions being DONE, and not becoming One the with Cosmos.


And the very opposite was stated at the meditation workshop I attended (led by an ER physician no less). Regardless of theology, 4000 years of religious wisdom warns about too much action and not enough "stopping i.e. Sabbath". But yes, even for that i.e. meditation, prayer, Sabbath, walks in nature...one must take an action. Perhaps we're discussing the same thing.

[andersons]

You will finish the book feeling servile and apostle-like, but soon your other ordinary likes and dislikes come back into view and the Covey message evaporates.

There is nothing new there apart from his preacher-like approach (which differentiates him from the more self focused angle of most other writers).
Well, as Sherlock Holmes would say, everything seems obvious once you know it. It clearly was not obvious stuff to you the first time you read it -- and that's the only time that counts for judging obviousness.

If it were all truly obvious stuff that no one needs to hear, I doubt the book would have had the impact that it did have and continues to have.


I would LOVE to be able to devote chunks of high quality time to my important, non-urgent roles on a weekly basis, but I know this is never going to happen.

I get up at 6 a.m., and everything I do then is focussed on getting into work at 9 a.m. in a reasonably presentable condition. I generally get home around 9 in the evening, and I must be in bed by 10 p.m. to be ready to get up at 6 again.

My son is nearly 8, and after he hits 13 he won’t want to know me. The months are flying by and the window is closing rapidly. I can’t find time for him, let alone the other top role relationships.

Life in 2005 is a matter of trying to keep your head above water, a matter of survival.

The only hope in hell for the Covey approach is if we get non-urgent, important tasks onto our project lists, and try to get to the next action if an unexpected window of time comes up. But there are no big slots of time up for grabs: they don’t exist any more. There is no room for big rocks.

This is why Covey is irrelevant in the twenty first century. Ok, he can point out all the things that are wrong with life today. But life today is not going to get any better. Nothing short of dismantling the global stock market is going to change that.
Yikes. You missed the message of Habit #1 -- you have the power to choose. You choose to spend 15 hours a day on work and none with your son.

Logically, you have to actually follow advice before you can judge whether it works or not. You choose to do the opposite of Covey's advice for habits 1, 2, and 3. Then you say that Covey is irrelevant. The logic here is sorely lacking. When you do the opposite of someone's advice, you cannot say the advice is irrelevant.

Likewise, if a person disregards every bit of advice in GTD, that person cannot claim that GTD doesn't work!

Covey is absolutely right about scheduling time for important but not urgent things. It works. How many times on THIS forum have people asked how they can get themselves to do the things on their Next Actions list that are important but not urgent? And how many times have people on THIS forum responded that they should schedule time for those things?

Putting things like "Exercise" or "Time with spouse" on a Next Actions list to be done whenever "possible" is the approach that DOES NOT work. Those merely important things sit on the Next Actions list forever while the urgent ones get done.

Every single person I know who exercises regularly or who spends time with family regularly schedules regular times in which to do those things.

So you read Covey, didn't like the message, and choose to live your life differently. That doesn't prove Covey irrelevant; in my opinion, your experience proves Covey IS relevant. In the long run, if you are happy with the choices of your life, if you are satisfied with the outcome of those choices, and if the people to whom you owe responsibility, like your son, are happy with the outcome of your choices as well, then perhaps you can say you didn't need Covey. But you'll still never know what your life would have been like if you had followed the 7 habits. So you still cannot judge them.

[avrum68]

Excellent post Andersons

[MikeC]

Covey's method is to Ask (with intent of listening) Listen (without excuse) and Act (with courage).

Obviously, this so called connection with conscience is most likely meant to be Spiritual.

However, then, what is intuition? It is (for one) the belief in an inter-connectedness with each other and other things. Isn't this a spiritual thing?

[CosmoGTD]

Much of this comes down to style, and not just content.
Some like Covey's style, some despise it. Personally, I got the 8th Habit from the library, and I found the book, and DVD to be repugnant, as in, as cheezy as an infomercial. That applies to both the style and content, and the postulating of human "faculties", etc.

I find the Covey thing can end up with a nice Mission statement that looks good on the wall, or worse, creating something too idealistic that creates self-loathing.

But purely on the level of subjective experience, Covey's way of speaking makes me feel all creepy. Its sort of detached and robotic, with an affected perma-grin built in.
I find the Covey thing just too grandiouse and corny, and perhaps even sorta culty.

[pageta]

Why not? My own experience is that I can make time for anything that I truly consider important, because if it's really important I'm willing to sacrifice something else to do it.

For me, the key difference between Covey and GTD is that Covey shows you where to go, but GTD shows you how to get there. (Compass vs. map? Maybe.)

Katherine, you have such a gift for hitting the nail right on the head.

I am self-employed. When I worked for someone else, even if I had "goals" they were completely irrelevant because my job was to go to work and do what needed to be done. GTD would have done wonders for me in that environment.

Now that I'm self-employed, GTD sounds great, but the thing I struggled with most in the beginning is that I had nothing to do because no one is telling me what to do. Every single item on my lists is something I came up with myself and since I decided to do it, I could also decide not to do it.

I use Covey to help me decide what I need to do. I use GTD to actually get it done. Seriously.

So now that I've been doing GTD for a while, I've actually gotten Covey back out and for the first time in my life actually found it to be quite useful as well. Prior to GTD, I would set goals but never come anywhere near accomplishing them. The weeks and months would go by and I would be in the same place I was when I sat down and defined my purpose and roles and goals and all that. Now that I have the confidence that I can accomplish what I set out to do, setting goals in all areas of my life has become extremely valuable to me.

The other thing about GTD that kind of sneaks up on you is that you see what you are spending much of your time on since you have all of your to-do's written down. With that perspective, you can objective analyze your tasks and possible delete or delegate the ones that don't actually appeal to you. What you are not aware of, you cannot change.

So to me, Covey is not useful without GTD and GTD is not useful without Covey. If I was working in the corporate world, I might find GTD useful on its own, but not in my world.

[mcogilvie]

OK, people, listen up. Covey is a guy who writes books and gives seminars on how to live better. He is not the messiah, or a buddha, or an enlightened master; neither is he a charlatan or a fraud. He may be a 33rd degree Mason for all I know, but who cares? Anybody who thinks he has THE ANSWERS for modern life 1) has not been watching/reading the news lately; 2) has a fundamentally different apprehension of life than I have. Helpful, maybe; definitive no.

Remember always the great teaching:

YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY

and practice tolerance, both true believers and skeptics.

There, I feel better now. Thanks.

[avrum68]

Personally, I got the 8th Habit from the library, and I found the book, and DVD to be repugnant, as in, as cheezy as an infomercial.

We agree. The 8th Habit was the worst book purchase I've made in a long time. I'll admit something else...I trained my staff via the 7 Habits a few years back. We all enjoyed the process and they claim to have learned a lot. So I purchased a few copies of the 8th habit hoping for the same jolt. We were all disapointed. I owned that mistake :-|

[Cikub]

OK, good, you can do sarcasm- always so win-win :).

Yes, I deserve more of a smack than a smiley, and I'm sure Covey would be first in line to smack me. I have an unfortunate affinity for sarcasm and irony. My apologies to BusyDave if it was offensive.

I wrote the post because I felt that BusyDave was throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It seems clear to me that millions have found the 7 Habit to have some merit or usefulness. If someone doesn't find the book to be helpful, that's just fine, but they should take personal ownership of their personal feelings. For example:

"*I* finished the book feeling servile and apostle-like, but soon *my* other ordinary likes and dislikes came back into view and the Covey message evaporated *for me*.”

I heartily disagree with other comments that have been made in this thread about Covey preaching religion, “skyhooks”, etc.. To me, these observations are just as logically unfounded as the owners of those opinions say that Covey’s principles are. If anything, I think it’s an issue of religions adopting effective principles as part of their “truth” rather than today’s authors trying to adapt religious beliefs to secular life.

Others in this thread have done an excellent job of pointing out that Covey’s work is all about shedding the deception that that life is in control of us. He wants people to realize that happiness comes from being the person you want to be rather than just completing next actions that outside forces “compel” you to have. He wants people to live their short lives with purpose. I don’t understand how anyone can fault that.

C

PS. Let’s try not to confuse Franklin Covey the company with Stephen Covey the author. He does not manage the company or control it. And I’m sure he himself would not touch their software with a 10 foot pole.


PPS.


But purely on the level of subjective experience, Covey's way of speaking makes me feel all creepy inside! Its sort of detached and robotic, with an affected perma-grin built in.

I can't say I feel "creepy inside", but I can relate with this comment. I listened to 8th Habit on audio book and agree that it was much more fluff than what I hoped for. I think Covey simply has walked so long in the personal improvement industry groove that it has become a rut. But that's just want happens to all humans, from politicians to IT consultants, after a while you get lost in the buzz words, etc.. The 7-Habits, however, is still a landmark.

[BigStory]

Putting things like "Exercise" or "Time with spouse" on a Next Actions list to be done whenever "possible" is the approach that DOES NOT work. Those merely important things sit on the Next Actions list forever while the urgent ones get done.

Interesting. I agree. I was just skimming through First Things First other day, and came to this conclusion: "C" items go onto Someday/Maybe, "B" items go onto my NA lists, and "A" items go onto my calendar to mark the appropriate time for the get to work dealine and the submission deadline, AND they go onto my NA lists or Project lists, to remind me of what needs to get done before the deadline. Same thing with the Q2 and Matrix. The underlying principles are similar, but the parrangment is different. GTD is more practically effective. I too found that GTD supplied what I needed to actually implement the values and priorities that Covey helped me to recover.

Gordon

[Busydave]

I believe that “choice” is one of the great myths of the self-help industry. We are encouraged to align our lives along roles/projects or whatever: but our entire lives have already been aligned with national economic policy as it applies to the workforce.

If I choose to cut down on my working hours, then my home, my son’s education fund, and my pension will vanish. I resent Covey implying that I have “chosen” to pay my mortgage, educate my son and provide for our old age. These are the cold hard realities of life.

My “choice” to work long hours was made by whoever it was thought a minimum forty hour week was a better “choice” for us than, say, a twenty hour week.

If I “choose” to deal with important but not urgent issues in work, I am liable to be injured when the pile of files in my in tray collapses on Friday.

I am not prepared to waste time fantasising about a world of “choice”.

Dave

[kewms]

I'm not going to argue about what choices you do or don't have, since I don't know you or your situation.

But I do know that houses, cars, vacations, and other goods come in a variety of different sizes and price ranges. I know lots and lots of people (myself included) who could be quite comfortable with much less stuff than they actually have. I know people who work two jobs so they can afford to vacation in Europe. That's a choice. I know people who work their butts off to afford three acre lots with swimming pools that they don't have time to enjoy. That's a choice.

Personally, I decided that no amount of money is worth working 15 hours a day and having no life. So I stopped doing that. Strangely enough, the world didn't come to an end. When I work fewer hours, my focus and quality of work improve, so the work product is more valuable. In the last ten years, I've taken two pay cuts to improve my quality of life (one when I changed jobs to work at home, one when I became self-employed). Yet I made more money last year than I would have if I'd stayed on the "fast track," and did it in half the time with less than half the stress.

The most important choice is to believe that you have choices.

Katherine

[TesTeq]

I know lots and lots of people (myself included) who could be quite comfortable with much less stuff than they actually have.
Why not to get rid of this stuff - to give it away to clear your life space. Radically.

[SteadyEdd]

For me this is one of the most interesting threads for a while. I've read both texts but don't consider myself good at either (yet). However I think that some people are confusing Coveys First Things First (FTF) book with his 7 Habits. FTF is a more time management orientated text based on his 7 Habits work and doesn't compliment GTD too well. Although there may be some overlap between 7 Habits and GTD personally I see them as complementary. Covey himself talks about the return to the 'Character Ethic' which is the thrust of the 7 Habits work. GTD is all about Getting Things Done.
Edward

[Gameboy70]

While some of the criticism in this thread is idle sectarianism, it's been an interesting read. Part of the problem with reading Covey in the 21st century is that yesterday's truisms are today's platitudes -- think of the apocryphal student who complained, after reading Hamlet, that it had "so many clichés" (not to imply that Covey is the Shakespeare of time management!). Before Covey, the only well-known personal productivity gurus were James McKay and Alan Laekin. Covey was instrumental in defining the rubric we now take for granted.

The appeal of Allen's system over Covey's is that it's grounded in highly specific methodology rather than motivational discourse. The workflow algorithm, general reference filing, suspense filing, context lists, etc., leave nothing to the imagination except for personal preferences like hardware. It's the first productivity system that I'm aware of that treats the comprehensive collection and processing of both internal and external material equivalently (i.e. physical paperwork and inputs from a mind sweep are both handled through the same process). GTD is a system of fairly straightforward technical tasks, which I've personally found more actionable than appeals to "principle" and "character."

[mcogilvie]

While some of the criticism in this thread is idle sectarianism, it's been an interesting read. Part of the problem with reading Covey in the 21st century is that yesterday's truisms are today's platitudes -- think of the apocryphal student who complained, after reading Hamlet, that it had "so many clichés" (not to imply that Covey is the Shakespeare of time management!). Before Covey, the only well-known personal productivity gurus were James McKay and Alan Laekin. Covey was instrumental in defining the rubric we now take for granted.

Ah, another scholar of the history of time management! Actually, I would argue that Hyrum Smith, founder of the Franklin Quest company which merged with Covey's smaller organization, was the true popularizer of a holistic planning process. He worked with Charles R. Hobbs, who had a relationship with DayTimer. Hobbs wrote a book called Time Power, in which one can see many of the hallmarks of Franklin practices: ABC123 priorities, linking of entries, et cetera. It is not my area of expertise, but I think Covey lifted what is now the "business life" genre away from "Make millions by cold-calling" towards something new. Can anyone comment on how people like Napoleon Hill and Norman Vincent Peale fit into this?




The appeal of Allen's system over Covey's is that it's grounded in highly specific methodology rather than motivational discourse. The workflow algorithm, general reference filing, suspense filing, context lists, etc., leave nothing to the imagination except for personal preferences like hardware. It's the first productivity system that I'm aware of that treats the comprehensive collection and processing of both internal and external material equivalently (i.e. physical paperwork and inputs from a mind sweep are both handled through the same process). GTD is a system of fairly straightforward technical tasks, which I've personally found more actionable than appeals to "principle" and "character."

Exactly. Strong on process, agnostic on implementation. (Actually, GTD has a lot in common with modern software design.) GTD is layered in a very flexible way. You can take almost ANY program of guided exploration of goals and behavior, work it, and drop the results into a good GTD implementation.

[jerendeb]

Okay here goes, I wish I could remember how I planned my calendar & tasks before 1990 when I read 7 Habits & before 1999 when I first heard of David Allen. I know one thing, I had less stress & got more done!

Covey-I think for me the most important commment is in regard to character & integrity; if I have any duplicity, dishonestly, ill motives I cannot do the 7 Habits because my mission statement will be idealistic or a reminder of how bad I really am. In First Things First he speaks of a shrink who was Manic-Depressive who got into real trouble until he became fully aware of integrity (therapy). I also found myself really getting absorbed in the Mission, Roals, Goals & found total frustration because I wasn't able to teach anyone this stuff & felt very alone & alein in my approach to managing my week.

GTD-I believe that a person can use this manner of stuff management no matter what type of character that person has. The idea here is to get stuff done & cleared off the deck. There are more modifications of David Allen's GTD than any other time managers. A criminal, homemaker, preacher, teacher, student, CEO, blue collar worker, anyone can get stuff done using all or parts of this management style.

Back to my main point in the begining; my wife uses no method or formula to get her stuff done & she is the most effective & efficient human being I know. Her approach is simple, just do it.

I wish I could remember how I planned my calendar & tasks...

later

[avrum68]

my wife uses no method or formula to get her stuff done & she is the most effective & efficient human being I know.

Ain't it the truth. All of my friends/family who are successful (not in terms of goods/money - although some do have those things - ) haven't heard of, read or practice GTD. And after reading and doing GTD, my basic nature - both good and bad - took over and much of what Allen preaches I found to be, well, annoying. It would seem that the more we understand our basic nature - how we tick - the better we can use certain tools, times of the day, working relationships to FIT with out style. And then we're sailing.

[pageta]

Ain't it the truth. All of my friends/family who are successful (not in terms of goods/money - although some do have those things - ) haven't heard of, read or practice GTD.

Really? Everyone I know either doesn't manage time well or is very frustrated with how much they get done. I see people all around who could benefit so much if they implemented GTD. It almost drives me crazy. My mom, especially, is "known" for being a good time manager, and really, she does get a lot done. But she does a lot in crisis mode too, and it drives me crazy being around her because I have to operate within her crisis mode - she may get things done, but I get tired of having to drop my "non-emergency" in order to help her with her "emergency." Ugh!

[avrum68]

Really? Everyone I know either doesn't manage time well or is very frustrated with how much they get done. I see people all around who could benefit so much if they implemented GTD.

When I first started doing GTD, I was full of vigor and told friends about the system. Two of 'em (both highly successful in the biz world) scoffed at the methodology claiming it appeared stifling and overly complex. Another tried the system (he's a graphic designer) and in a few weeks reverted back to his "to do" lists.

Personally, I'm using a combination of Wishcraft/Sher, GTD/Allen and 7 Habits/Covey. In my life,Sher's no-nonsense and soulful approach to some of these issues wins out 70% of the time over the other two methods.

[Jamie Elis]

No one writer has a monopoly on truth or wisdom. If any one book could help everyone in everyway,I don't think we would have so many titles and approaches from which to choose. I think it is wise to examine an approach offered in a book and ask oneself several questions.
First, do I like the overall philosophy and values? What do I need to do to be capable of learning and using these methods? When will I know if I have given them a fair trial? Can I use part of the system usefully or must one use the whole system? This is like baking from a recipe. Check the recipe, does it sound good? Do you have the skills and ingredients and the equipment? Make it a few times and see if you like the results. Try some substitutions. Adjust the recipe to your liking or just use part of it. Note what seems not to be working and try to figure out why. Note what is working and try to keep it going. Above all, don't condemn yourself or the writer if you are not 100% satisfied. If the recipe is too hard, is there is simpler version? Keep asking yourself, how is this going to help me? However, be alert for excessive claims and promises by the author and for beliefs on your part that it will be easy all the way or that you just have to own the book to apply the method.

[CosmoGTD]

Great point!
I too know some folks who just do everything by the seat of their pants, and get everything done, and do really well.
I think the trap is for those with Obsessive tendencies, who want to try and "control" everything, and who then actually get LESS done then when they just flew by the seat of their pants.

As far as "integrity" Hyrum Smith was a royal hypocrite and finally came out about it a while back, and Franklin-Covey does NOT operate according to the principles of Covey. So there is a ton of hypocrisy there, in my view.

Sometimes, I think that Covey was a conspiracy brought in by corporate bosses to try and get their employees to stop stealing office supplies, while the coporate bosses raided the pension plan!!





Back to my main point in the begining; my wife uses no method or formula to get her stuff done & she is the most effective & efficient human being I know. Her approach is simple, just do it.

I wish I could remember how I planned my calendar & tasks...

later

[andersons]

I see people all around who could benefit so much if they implemented GTD. It almost drives me crazy. My mom, especially, is "known" for being a good time manager, and really, she does get a lot done. But she does a lot in crisis mode too, and it drives me crazy being around her because I have to operate within her crisis mode - she may get things done, but I get tired of having to drop my "non-emergency" in order to help her with her "emergency." Ugh!
It might benefit you if your mother worked ahead of time on her commitments. But GTD doesn't have anything to say about how far ahead of time to start working on projects. Even if it did, GTD wouldn't benefit your mother at all. It would actually be a detriment to her; she would have to do all her work herself instead of getting you to help her.

[pageta]

It might benefit you if your mother worked ahead of time on her commitments. But GTD doesn't have anything to say about how far ahead of time to start working on projects. Even if it did, GTD wouldn't benefit your mother at all. It would actually be a detriment to her; she would have to do all her work herself instead of getting you to help her.

Perhaps. But I would actually probably help her more if I didn't feel like I needed to hide in order to do anything I wanted to do. If I knew in advance that she needed someone to peel potatoes for dinner, I would do it without being asked, and I would probably contribute more to family meals. But when I'm in the middle of playing monopoly with my dad and sister and all of a sudden mom needs someone to come peel potatoes now, I help her but it makes me mad. I would have much preferred to peel the potatoes at a time when I wasn't immersed in a table game. If I knew mashed potatoes for dinner were my responsibility, I would have them cut up ahead of time OR plan on stopping at a point when they needed to be done. I wouldn't wait until I had to prepare them in record time just so they could be done fifteen minutes after we planned to eat dinner.

My husband will tell you that my family operates in crisis mode and that meals are usually 30 to 60 minutes late...because no one plans anything. If you treat preparing a meal as a project and make a list of all the sub-projects and next actions to be completed, everyone has the opportunity to help because they know what needs to be done. But if one person tries to manage everything in their head, chances are they will not think of everything in the proper order and there will be emergencies that cause dinner to be delayed. Those "emergencies" could have easily been avoided with proper planning.

When they all come to my house and I'm in charge, meals are served on time and we leave in plenty of time to do the activities we planned. It's a much different world when they are MY guests.

[Busydave]

Isn't it about time we heard from Johnw654?

[mcogilvie]

Isn't it about time we heard from Johnw654?

I think Johnw654's original post looks like an advertisement.. at best.

[TesTeq]

If I knew in advance that she needed someone to peel potatoes for dinner, I would do it without being asked, and I would probably contribute more to family meals. But when I'm in the middle of playing monopoly with my dad and sister and all of a sudden mom needs someone to come peel potatoes now, I help her but it makes me mad.
So you are playing monopoly and your mom is working (preparing dinner) and it is always a surprise for you that she may need your help...

Maybe you should not wait for her to ask you to do something. Maybe you should ask her sometimes: "how can I help you?".

[pageta]

So you are playing monopoly and your mom is working (preparing dinner) and it is always a surprise for you that she may need your help...

Maybe you should not wait for her to ask you to do something. Maybe you should ask her sometimes: "how can I help you?".

I think you missed my point.

I am perfectly willing to help. Chances are I did ask her what needed to be done and she told me, "Nothing," which was true at the moment that she said it. However, had she thought through what needed to be done and planned ahead a little, she could have told me at the point that it would be great if someone else could make the mashed potatoes. We would discuss when that needed to be started in order to be done on time, and then I would plan accordingly and she would not have to think about it herself any more.

It's when she doesn't plan ahead or think through what needs to be done and then comes rushing into the living room and tells us that the mashed potatoes should have been on the stove (as in already peeled and cut up and boiling) fifteen minutes ago and expects one of us to jump up immediately and run do it in record time in order to make up for lost time...that would be when I have a problem.

When my family gets together, there are enough cooks in the house that my mother could just plan the meals and the rest of us could do all the cooking if we knew what needed to be done and when. But if she's just planning things in her head as she goes and rest of us don't know what is on the menu, much less what recipes she's using and what needs to be done to prepare the food, there isn't much that we can do to help regardless of how willing we are to help.

Bottom line is, if you don't sufficiently plan what needs to be done, you cannot ask people to help you because you won't know what you will need them to help you with. What is it they say? Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part. Seriously. There's a lot of wisdom in that statement.

[TesTeq]

Bottom line is, if you don't sufficiently plan what needs to be done, you cannot ask people to help you because you won't know what you will need them to help you with. What is it they say? Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part. Seriously. There's a lot of wisdom in that statement.
But you can order them to do it (if you are president, army officer, mother or father).

[andersons]

I think you missed my point.
I think you missed the point. Bottom line, your mother can indeed ask you to help exactly when she wants to -- at the last minute -- because you do help her when she presents an emergency. So look at the situation from your mother's point of view. She doesn't like to plan ahead, but she does like to get your help. With her current behavior she gets what she wants: no planning, plus help from you. That's her nature, and everything works out OK for her because she gets the help she wants, when she spontaneously wants it. So why should she change her basic nature to start planning ahead?

You are basically saying, Mother, I want you to completely change the way you behave because the change will be more to my liking. But very few people will radically change their behavior just to suit you better. And why can't your mother also expect you to lighten up and be willing to be more spontaneous? It is unrealistic to expect other people to plan ahead just because that's the way you prefer to live. And it's unrealistic -- at best -- to try to change one's mother.

From your mother's point of view, she doesn't have a problem: she gets what she wants. You are the one with a problem because you help her at the last minute but resent doing it.

So you could kill the resentment, accept your mother for who she is -- a person very different from you -- and just decide to be willing to help her out on her terms (at the last minute) when you're at her house. When the only consequence is interrupting a monopoly game during family get-togethers, this is what I would do. After all, interrupting a monopoly game is not a tragedy; you can pick it up later.

Or you could tell your mother in advance that you'll be glad to help with dinner if you know by lunchtime what she would like you to do, but that you don't like surprises and don't want to help at the last minute. After all, family dinners do not really constitute a crisis or emergency unless some hard deadline after dinner will be missed, like leaving for a show. So then stick to your decision.

[pageta]

I still think that she would be happier in general if she wasn't living in a crisis mode. It's not just family dinners. It's everything she does. Why go through all that unnecessary stress? I used to live like that and now am much happier at a bit of a slower pace. Of course I help her when she wants help. And generally she is fairly organized. It's just that 10% improvement that would make the 90% difference in the tone of her daily life.

I think the original comment that brought this up was that we'd like other people around us to do GTD because we think they would manage time better if they did. I still stand on that premise. I can see areas where each member of my family could benefit if they did GTD. I just mentioned my mother specifically because fixing meals was an easy example that came to mind.

Yes, I know that you can't change other people. Obviously I have not done what it takes to sell my family on GTD. They only see me on vacation, though, and that's when I'm not doing much GTD. None of them have visited me at my house since I've been doing GTD. I hope that at some point I will have the opportunity to present GTD to them in such a way that they see how they can benefit from it. Until then, they're in Florida and I'm in the Midwest so it's really not a big deal.

[Gameboy70]

I think there's a convert syndrome people go through with GTD where they begin experiencing a higher standard of execution and follow-through, and simultaneously begin seeing the lack of those standards in others. Since GTD is what raised the bar in the first place, it follows that they would like the same for others.

What's important are the standards, not the means to acheive them. If someone learns effective methods from Covey or Allen, or chooses to use no guru, method or teacher -- but consistently gets things done efficiently -- then nothing else matters.

[skn]

I want to share that one of the key differences between the two is that, Allen classifies tasks by "venue" but Covey by "importance". Allen has correctly stated that unimportant tasks are not unimportant as all, cos they will continuously occupy our mind and we have to do it anyway. it's a good insight, a better view than Covey.

[stargazer_rick]

a better view than Covey.

No one is really 'better' than the other. One may be 'better suited for a particular person' than another, however. Ideally, we will seriously experiment with a variety of methodologies and use the pieces that work well for our own personality types and situations. I've been doing GTD for about 3 years now and consider myself rather black belt with most of David's methodologies. After attending a recent Franklin-Covey 'Focus' seminar I decide to try to implement some of those methodologies as well in a 3-week trial. I found that they complement each other quite well, at least for me, at this particular time. I've been blogging about my GTD/Covey integration (and use of TiddlyWiki) on my blog. Some here might find some useful information there.

[alisa]

Hello!

all this sounds interesting but can anyone give me some related title that relly were helpfull
thanks. alisa

[skn]

as we're talking about covey, i wanna say that, i don't like the 8th habit book, much worse than 7habits. make it too complicated, less structured. one of the selling points of 7habits is that they're all well organised and connected to each other with convincing explanation. however, the structure in the 8th habit is crazy. the book is thick. i almost do not find any insight from this book.

[ommoran]

I am perfectly willing to help. Chances are I did ask her what needed to be done and she told me, "Nothing," which was true at the moment that

Pageta,

I totally understand. My mother is of similar construction, and it drives me stirry too - mostly, I think, because I know some of that behaviour is in my construction as well. I work very hard to overcome it, but it is frustrating because it does add to the tension whenever my mother comes to visit or we visit her. I still love her to bits, and the issues are, in their unique way, part of why I love her - but they still drive me mad.

[TyQ]

I believe that “choice” is one of the great myths of the self-help industry. We are encouraged to align our lives along roles/projects or whatever: but our entire lives have already been aligned with national economic policy as it applies to the workforce.

If I choose to cut down on my working hours, then my home, my son’s education fund, and my pension will vanish. I resent Covey implying that I have “chosen” to pay my mortgage, educate my son and provide for our old age. These are the cold hard realities of life.

My “choice” to work long hours was made by whoever it was thought a minimum forty hour week was a better “choice” for us than, say, a twenty hour week.

If I “choose” to deal with important but not urgent issues in work, I am liable to be injured when the pile of files in my in tray collapses on Friday.

I am not prepared to waste time fantasising about a world of “choice”.

Dave

Dave, I agree with you that there are sociological factors that have the potential to steer the lives of most people. However, I disagree strongly with your opinion that we are all just cogs in a big machine and just have to live with it. Your post sounds so helpless, full of defeat, and makes it sound that we all have no influence on how our lives turns out.

Yes life has realities. You have to earn money to pay for a place to live. Do you have a choice on how you do that? Do you have the choice to develop and educate yourself into more of an earner? Do you have the choice to start a business? Do you have a choice not to surrender?

I personally know very successful people and unsuccessful people of all ages. I have a family friend who earns 8 figures per year (not a typo) and works a few hours a week (not a typo). He does not maintain an office, his typical work day consists of a 1-2 phone calls to the president of his company that he privately owns. He has a fractional Jet ownership, 2006 Ferrari, and beautiful 7 figure properties around the world. He has extensive investments outside of his primary company so he is essentially set for life not matter what.

He came from poor immigrant background, limited education, excellent values and work ethic, and has had serious setbacks in life that would cause most of us just to feel like we don't have a choice and give up. His life is not perfect by any means, but he basically can do whatever the hell he wants and on very good terms for the rest of his life. I mention him because his very unique life came out of thousands and thousands of acts of CHOICE. It was never handed to him, he had to go out and get it against all odds.

BusyDave I am writing this post because on all levels I have found what you said completely against everything I believe and stand for. But I also write this because I have felt like you do now, and I am sure I might feel it again in the future. You make life sound like a prison when I am assuming you live in relatively free and democratic society. There is so much opportunity out there it will make your head spin. You have to be looking for it, and you have to act on it. Easy to say, harder to do.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

Might I suggest some reading:
Awaken the Giant Within by Anthony Robbins (first couple chapters for sure)
The 1st Habbit of the "7 Habbits"
Getting Things Done by David Allen
Ready for Anything by David Allen
Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl

[Busydave]

Dave, I agree with you that there are sociological factors that have the potential to steer the lives of most people. However, I disagree strongly with .......

........ so much opportunity out there it will make your head spin. You have to be looking for it, and you have to act on it. Easy to say, harder to do.


Interesting!

I remember the time when I posted that, and what a dark time it was.

I would say that my dilemma was primarily caused by trying to impose my own vision on life. I had a deeply cherished list of ambitions, which at that time I knew were starting to terminally cave in.

As I said in the “GTD versus Personal Entropy” thread, my life’s ambitions basically equated with my someday/maybe list. Every time I looked at that list, I got depressed all over again when I read all the wonderful things that I knew I would never get to do.

Many writers emphasise the point that we must avoid habitual dark thoughts. What could have been darker than reading a someday/maybe list on a weekly basis that was never going to come true?

Drastic simplification was called for!!

I have discovered the satisfaction of just getting stuff done. And it throws up some real surprises: if I was asked to design a perfect Saturday in my head, it would include a walk in the park, reading a great book, music, etc.

The reality: I recently had to work two Saturdays in a row, and the buzz of getting two work assignments totally completed had me bouncing off the walls with joyful energy.

Bottom line: once I accepted the fact that working for my employer was going to take the lion’s share of all my waking hours, I found it easy to jettison most of my dreams – they actually began to appear to be nothing more than that - just dreams. The weight that has been lifted off my shoulders is enormous.

Maybe it’s a midlife thing, but I think I’ve successfully navigated that minefield.

Dave

[TyQ]

Interesting!

Maybe it’s a midlife thing, but I think I’ve successfully navigated that minefield.

Dave

Dave, what a great response! I get the impression that you made peace with it all. I actually remember a bit about your post that mentions the someday/maybe list being something that you wanted your life to look like but never happens. Sometimes it seems like nothing ever gets checked off my Someday/Maybe list other than books to read or films to see.

However I have seen the odd sticky note turn into a someday/maybe, and turn into multiple projects, which eventually resulted in a successfull business venture. This has happened more than once. The more I use DAs methods the more powerful I realize they are.