GTD Anti-Procrastination Workshop thread [!ANTIAVOIDANCE] [Archive]

helenjc

02-28-2006, 07:01 PM

Great idea coz let's all help eachother out!!

My first of possibly a few is my @calls list. I've started to wonder if it's not a 'mini phobia' but I'm not sure.

My list will start off small and will be very action specific with who i need to speak with, what about and what the number is. The problem is that even if it's a simple one like making a hairdressing/doctor's appointment I will balk at it. I will just look at it and go , no not now. I will even do the same with calling a friend just to say hello (an important one as far as my higher level 'views' are concerned in terms of maintaining or nurturing good relationships with friends and family). So you can imagine of course if there are any 'hairy' ones like 'call tax department to ask for extension regarding business activity statement' well that's just way too scary!!

What I do then is let them get 'stale'. I will look at them at my weekly review and feel strange and do a big fat 'avoid'. Once they are way older than they should be I stop even looking at the calls list and therefore don't even add anything to it!!! Big breakdown in the system huh!

What shifts it? The extreme urgency thing where I absolutely HAVE to do them - so I will pick at the most urgent with my eyes shut almost.
The only other thing that shifts it is a major energy shift where I feel like as DA talks about on the GTD Fast cd's I'm captain of my ship because I've started to clean the refrigerator 'by default' and suddenly done the whole thing.

I tried to analyse 'what I was afraid of'.... I mean really is the hairdresser going to say 'no i dont want to cut your hair?' .... so therefore I"m silly I should do those silly simple no brainer ones first.... then get the energy from those to do the more serious ones involving a degree of professionalism but maybe that's the whole point. My 'mind' won't let me do those simple ones because then only the big scaries will be left!!

Go figure... Any tricks or sympathetic nods gratefully accepted!!

treelike

02-28-2006, 11:55 PM

I was tempted to say you don't have a problem because speaking in the phone is something you don't like to do, therefore why not defer it so that you can do something more interesting and productive in the meantime.

Of course, now that my GTD training just kicked in, I realised how wrong this is. The phone action is something that won't go away, it needs to be done- otherwise it wouldn't be on your NA list. And putting off stuff for no good reason until it becomes urgent is one of the major GTD sins!

Also, even though you don't want to use the phone, the things that result from using the phone are things that you definitely want to do.

Most importantly you have recognised that this is something which you don't like about yourself and it is constantly preying on your mind. So... why not get it off your mind and start a new Project called "Cure Phone Phobia"!

I have some personal experience of phobias and found desensitisation (you do the thing you don't like on purpose and build it up gradually) and also hypnosis/ relaxation useful. The main thing is accept there's a problem and accept there will be pain in overcoming it.

There are lots of resources out there but may I recommend the following online book (it's free) for starters. Chapter 5 deals with anxiety problems.

http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/

Tornado

03-01-2006, 03:39 AM

helenjc,

When I have resistance to an entire area of work, I frequently find that it is helpful to schedule an appointment with myself to do only that. It is basically just a way of tricking myself into not wandering off into other less alarming tasks. If "@calls" is on my calendar from 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM, I know that I am only supposed to be working on that, and I will sit down, put on my headset and start dialing my way down the list. A side benefit of this method is that I usually get through the list in much less time than I predict it will take, and if it does take the entire time, then at least I know that I can quit at the end of the time I've set aside without breaking an agreement with myself.

Side Note: A headset for the telephone, by the way, is an incredibly helpful piece of gear when you are making calls. You can write, type or dial without juggling the handset or getting a kink in your neck. It really makes the experience more fun and more productive.

Tornado

TC1965

03-01-2006, 03:44 AM

1. Is the task still too big? Do you need to break it down further? For instance. Have you got the number to hand? Do you have a clear idea of when you want to go? When is the best time to ring?

2. Are you not that bothered by the outcome? Or fearful of a poor outcome? Will you come out of the hairdresser's beautifully coifurred and ready to take on the world? Or will it be a case of waiting for it to grow back and hoping that nobody notices in the interim?

3. Perhaps as you allude to being able to worry about not doing the small issues allows you to not worry about the big issues. Or does it? Does it really save you worrying about the big issues or just give you more to worry about?

4. Is it a commitment issue? Do you prefer your time to be totally flexible and so resent structure? If this really is an ordeal try scheduling something you really want to do immediately after as a reward. Go for a drink, to the cinema or something else that you keep promising yourself you will do.

Take care not just to jump on one method of sorting your problem because you will find different issues have different solutions and some times a cocktail is needed.

Hope this helps. It certainly was cathartic for me as a reminder of the tools I have at my disposal for mastering my own issues.

monkeyjava

03-01-2006, 07:54 AM

helenjc, I know how you feel. I've struggled for years with an irrational fear of the telephone. I'm not completely sure why talking on the phone intimidates me so much, but I know it's holding me back.

I think part of it is that I feel terribly self-consious on the phone, both to the person on the other end and anyone who may overhear. I think I come across well in person and in writing, but I feel like I'm missing something when it comes to the phone converstation. It always seems awkward and embarassing. On the plus side, making the actual call seldom turns out to be as bad as I had imagined it.

My other major procrastination roadblock has more to do with my mood than the task at hand. There are times when my energy is low and my mood is bleak and I just don't want to deal with work. I know there is the reward of that feeling of accomplishment, but sometimes that just isn't enough. It would feel a lot better not having to do the task at all. I'm hoping that working on my higher elevations will help me totally eliminate some things I don't like to do, (with some major life changes) or help me realize that the reward for completion is much greater than I realized.

gunns256

03-01-2006, 11:25 AM

Consider standing up when you are making calls. If you are reluctant to speak on the phone, your voice may sound weak, and others may sense this and intimidate you. When you are standing your voice will be louder and more assertive.

Consider a script for each phone call. If you know what you want to say, you can often barrel through a conversation.

The headset's a good idea.

Any trick that can make you feel as if you are in control of the situation will help you with this.

Good Luck!

sonia_simone

03-01-2006, 12:18 PM

Very interesting posts! I hate hate hate talking on the phone. Just loathe.

My solution is to bribe myself (visits to forums, etc.), which more or less works. I will reread some of these posts, though, because I bet I can do a lot better.

shan150

03-03-2006, 04:26 AM

Helenjc, here is a sympathic nod. I suffer from the exact same "procrastination" problem. The funny thing is that although I will forever avoid calling to order a pizza I don't mind public speaking (I actually enjoy it).

One of the reasons that I became interested in GTD was because I thought it would help me overcome this problem to put calls into my weekly review list and deal with them as a task or project.

Unfortunately I think I may have to go to therapy for this problem. But I have isolated ONE major reason I don't like to make phone calls, it is because I don't like people to call me. Regardless of what I am doing I always feel interrupted when the phone rings, like some is intruding on my time. So, as a result when I make phone calls I feel like I am intruding upon someone else's time/life (this is only made worse when the person I call actually seems annoyed by the call).

This realization has helped me but it has not erradicated the problem. If anyone has a magic solution, that would be very welcome.

Shannon

carol

03-06-2006, 06:07 AM

You asked for projects that just aren't getting done. I have one.

At Christmas I took the video camera to a family reunion and took some pics of the present opening and my cousins engagement party on Christmas Eve. I promised to make CD's for various family members.

However the project "Christmas Video" just isn't moving. I have even broken the N/A's down as far as get firewire lead out of camera bag; Install movie software onto laptop; find CD for movie software etc. but it isn't getting done.

I think partly it is because other things are more urgent and important when I look at my N/A list and need doing asap whereas there isn't really a hard and fast deadline for the video CD's.

Any ideas welcome!

Regards,

Carol

bmd

03-06-2006, 07:56 AM

Things I'm stuck on? There isn't enough RAM in the world to hold them...But I HAD to thank you, Cosmo, for a big, therapeutic belly laugh on a morning when I surely needed one. The "list of ways to make better lists" made me laugh out loud.

Everything else you related was - always has been - exceptionally helpful.

As for the Christmas video issue: I fall into a black hole in the late afternoon, with the transition from work to home. I have an extremely low-pressure, flexible, parttime job, and I have (don't ask me how - I'm in awe of them) three easygoing, fun teenagers. So it's not as if I'm segueing from frying pan to fire. (OK, Child # 4, aka "spouse," is not as easygoing...) Like other Forumites, I am on top of things at the office but home is chaos. And by 5:00, even on a "good day," when I'm looking at the NA's in the household contexts, the voice in my head says, "Why bother?" "It's too late" Stuff like that. Don't know if that's why your video project keeps falling off. Because your time at home is endlessly negotiable?

Mindi

03-06-2006, 11:31 AM

Hi Carol,

I have two things that help me when trying to get something done that is stuck. The first is to break the next action down to a ridiculous level, i.e. 'walk into bedroom to get camera bag'. This has worked for me in projects that I am highly committed to but for some reason I'm not excited to do (for me anything routine takes a lot of effort). I usually follow creating the next action by questioning "Is there any reason I can't do that right now?" The answer is usually no, and so I can get the ball rolling on the project.
The second thing is to schedule some time for that particular project on my calendar. I only use this in desperate times, otherwise I learn to ignore those types of appointments. Goal setting at the beginning of the session (asking myself "What do I need to accomplish to feel like I've made progress on this project?") helps me focus on not feeling like a failure if I don't get the whole thing done in one sitting.
I can use these two methods to take care of approximately 50% of the next actions I have that are on my list for more than two weeks. Still trying to work out how to get the other 50% done.

;)Mindi

You asked for projects that just aren't getting done. I have one.

At Christmas I took the video camera to a family reunion and took some pics of the present opening and my cousins engagement party on Christmas Eve. I promised to make CD's for various family members.

However the project "Christmas Video" just isn't moving. I have even broken the N/A's down as far as get firewire lead out of camera bag; Install movie software onto laptop; find CD for movie software etc. but it isn't getting done.

I think partly it is because other things are more urgent and important when I look at my N/A list and need doing asap whereas there isn't really a hard and fast deadline for the video CD's.

Any ideas welcome!

Regards,

Carol

flexiblefine

03-06-2006, 11:43 AM

So it is true that modifying how a NA is worded can help to get the NA into motion. Sometimes it does draw you forward.
But in my view, oftentimes it does not. The reason for this is that we still "interpret" the NA in our mind. So even if it is worded well, we can still think, "Oh God, I don't want to do that crud", and thus avoid it.
I think I have a lot of that problem -- doing the very next action isn't so bad, but three or four actions down the road, there's something I feel anxious about. So things don't get done...

Last Friday, as part of my weekly review, I made a new "Push" context list and moved several items into it. Some of those items are for high-priority projects, but others are little things that just haven't been moving.

This morning, I started working from the top of my "Push" list, and now it's a little more than halfway done. I won't get it finished today, because there's too much left to do, but it's a good start. Even if I just make a Push list weekly and work it like this, it will be a great help to me.

One of today's Push items was an e-mail I'd been meaning to write since November, at least. This is an e-mail to ask questions about a software product -- not something I'm very emotional about, but I am anxious about trying to convince my company to buy the software.

For four months, I've procrastinated on this e-mail -- and I wrote it (and sent it) in 15 minutes this morning. All because it was on the Push list, and I pushed myself.

I think the Push list has just become a permanent part of my GTD setup, ready to be used whenever it's needed. I'll use it regularly for a little while, because too many things have been sitting for too long. This is finally a way for me to learn how to put things on my lists and get them dispatched before they get too old.

legidan

03-06-2006, 08:07 PM

Hi there, I think this also points to some Social Anxiety.
If its something you have struggled for years with, you might consider getting some treatment for it, perhaps. I hate to sound like a broken record, but something like Cognitive-Behavior Therapy might work wonders. (avoid other types of therapy for this type of thing, as it will most likely make it much worse).

Cosmo,

Are you a therapist? Because you're busy making knee-jerk diagnosis on a on-line bulletin board (something a trained therapist would never do) and telling people to "avoid other types of therapy" when study after study shows that relationship (therapist/client), not modality, is the strongest predictor of successful outcome i.e. reduced symptom.

TesTeq

03-06-2006, 09:45 PM

However the project "Christmas Video" just isn't moving. I have even broken the N/A's down as far as get firewire lead out of camera bag; Install movie software onto laptop; find CD for movie software etc. but it isn't getting done.
...
Any ideas welcome!
Apparently it is not very important and interesting for you. It is just a promise you made. Maybe you are the only person who still remebers about it? So - renegotiate, make a backup of the pictures and put it in the safe place.

Put "Christmas Video" project on your Someday/Maybe - and you're done with it. That's the place where it belongs.

ActionGirl

03-07-2006, 05:30 AM

Its just regular folks here sharing their ideas, experiences and opinions.
. . .
Again, each person is unique, and personally I am getting excellent value from some of the things being said in this thread.
Me too.

I've found that identifying the very next physical action (such as getting the video camera, etc) isn't all that helpful because I know darn well I do NOT want to act on the following steps (especially if they involve software, yuck).

I also hesitate to schedule an exact appointment with myself because it's practically a dare to break it. (Take that, self!)

Strangely, I think perhaps I can commit to getting the materials ready if all I have to commit to in advance is to sit with the project for an hour. Seems worth a try, anyway.

legidan

03-07-2006, 08:19 AM

The CBT types of therapy, and behavior therapy work the best to deal with procrastination, in my experience.
Social Anxiety is highly treatable using behavioral exposure techniques.

Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive, but the tone of your posts sounded diagnostic and clearly partisan. If you were a therapist, I would wonder where all the projected angst visavis alternatives to CBT was coming from. Most therapists I know see benefits in ALL therapies. My wife, a senior psychiatry resident, disagrees with many of your assertions about the wonders of CBT. She feels it works for some, yet for other's, their inability to take action, is greatly benefited from long-term talking therapy. Actually she just had a seminar entitled: CBT, Transference and Counter-Transference. Hmmm, sounds very analytic.

We should all be careful of the source and author when taking advice from a chat room, BB,etc...especially when it pertains to our health.

Stepping off the soap-box...

legidan

03-07-2006, 08:28 AM

But if a person wants to go to psychoanalytic or general talk therapy to try to deal with procrastination, then I personally would advise strongly against it, but of course, anyone can do whatever they want, and feel free to disagree. Its just regular folks here sharing their ideas, experiences and opinions.

Funny you should mention this because (and I'm gong to be cryptic on purpose to avoid embarrassing the individual...he lurks/posts on these boards) there's a friend of mine who's been seeing a CBT specialist for procrastination and is leaving him for an analytically trained therapist. He claims the suggestions and exercises worked for a few months, but the underlying causes of his procrastination are too complex for CBT therapy. And the kicker...his therapist agreed.

monkeyjava

03-07-2006, 02:39 PM

Cosmo,

Are you a therapist? Because you're busy making knee-jerk diagnosis on a on-line bulletin board (something a trained therapist would never do) and telling people to "avoid other types of therapy" when study after study shows that relationship (therapist/client), not modality, is the strongest predictor of successful outcome i.e. reduced symptom.

I was really, really enjoying this thread until this. I was also in no danger of mistaking anyone for a therapist. It was nice to hear regular folks talk about the ordinary issues they struggle with. I was thinking about posting tricks that worked for me, but guess I should make sure they don't contradict "study after study" first. Not being a scientist, I really don't want to do that much research.

carol

03-07-2006, 10:03 PM

Hi,

Well I thought I'd report back. I have found the movie program CD and put it beside the computer. First step done.

However, I've been thinking more about why the video project hasn't got started. I've realised that the problem starts BEFORE the first next action. I have been told that videos take LOTS of hard disk space! My computer doesn't have a lot of room left and really needs cleaning to make room. Maybe I'm worried about deleting the wrong things, then finding I need them later. It also seems like a major (and boring) job to go through all the directories and files to check if something can safely be removed. My brain is telling me it will take hours (that I don't have) and so I'm putting it off.

Perhaps my Next Action should be spend x minutes clearing rubbish out of xyz directory?

Regards

Carol

msherring

03-08-2006, 02:51 AM

I've read most of the posts on this thread. Maybe time for another topic.

I've been flirting w/ GTD for about a year or so. I was very gungho early on. Spent 2 days gathering everthing. When I was finished, I had over 300 N/As. Looking back not all of them were truly next actions. I couldn't avoid stopping my mind from thinking ahead 3 or 4 actions and listing them for fear of forgetting them. I would work off the list, but often the list was so large, and I had so many things that seemingly screamed to be done now, that I didn't do any of them. I've read the book, but have had a difficult time visulizing exactly how to organize my n/a vs. projects vs areas of responsibility.

Don't hold this against me, but I'm an attorney (sounds like the beginning of an AA meeting). I've got about 60 files or cases. Each one, depending on complexity, may have 10 to 15 projects with seveal n/a's for each project. Early in a case, I'll brainstorm about everything that needs to be done, the result of which can create numerous projects. Often there are no hard deadlines, save a trial date with corresponding discovery/deposition cut-off, etc. Between the time suit is filed and trial may be 9 months to a year, so its easy to put off the projects.

The overwhelming number of n/a's that don't have a deadline, but all of which seem to need to be done at the same time often leads to procrastination and my doing simply whatever fire pops up in front of me.

Questions:
How to organize an immense number of n/a's?

Aside, from upcoming hard deadlines, how to decide what n/a's or projects to handle?

What to do and where to keep projects v. n/a's, especially where I have seveal that are equally important on a particular case?

How to get past being frozen by the shear volume of projects and n/a's.

Thanks in advance for your time in responding.

msherring

03-08-2006, 02:53 AM

I've read most of the posts on this thread. Here's another question.

I've been flirting w/ GTD for about a year or so. I was very gungho early on. Spent 2 days gathering everthing. When I was finished, I had over 300 N/As. Looking back not all of them were truly next actions. I couldn't avoid stopping my mind from thinking ahead 3 or 4 actions and listing them for fear of forgetting them. I would work off the list, but often the list was so large, and I had so many things that seemingly screamed to be done now, that I didn't do any of them. I've read the book, but have had a difficult time visulizing exactly how to organize my n/a vs. projects vs areas of responsibility.

Don't hold this against me, but I'm an attorney (sounds like the beginning of an AA meeting). I've got about 60 files or cases. Each one, depending on complexity, may have 10 to 15 projects with several n/a's for each project. Early in a case, I'll brainstorm about everything that needs to be done, the result of which can create numerous projects. Often there are no hard deadlines, save a trial date with corresponding discovery/deposition cut-off, etc. Between the time suit is filed and trial may be 9 months to a year, so its easy to put off the projects.

The overwhelming number of n/a's that don't have a deadline, but all of which seem to need to be done at the same time often leads to procrastination and my working on simply whatever fire pops up in front of me.

Questions:
How to organize an immense number of n/a's?

Aside, from upcoming hard deadlines, how to decide what n/a's or projects to handle?

What to do and where to keep projects v. n/a's, especially where I have several that are equally important on a particular case?

How to get past being frozen by the shear volume of projects and n/a's.

Thanks in advance for your time in responding.

kewms

03-08-2006, 04:30 AM

This is exactly what I just went through with my recent project.
I really thought it would take 5 hours, and it took 16 hours! That blows my mind I could be off by 3x.
This is a very common occurrence. Some part of our brain knows its a 16 hour job, whereas we think consciously its a 5 hour job. No wonder we resist it.

I think this is why some people recommend breaking projects down into actions that will take an hour or less (some say 30 minutes or less) to finish. The more granularity you have, the better the chance that you've estimated the time accurately.

My own solution to the problem has been to keep track of how long things take. I don't bill by the hour, but keep track of time as if I did. That helps me see how much time gets chewed up by administrative tasks or marginally useful stuff (like the Web!), and how much is actually available for client work. At the end of a project, I can compare how long I thought it would take against how long it actually took and (hopefully!) improve my estimates for the next project.

Katherine

ActionGirl

03-08-2006, 05:04 AM

msherring

03-08-2006, 05:04 AM

Just meant to do a little editing before I posted.

msherring

03-08-2006, 05:09 AM

However, while some of my concerns may be better addressed by lawyers, I figured many of my concerns seemed in line with the intent of this thread.

Lawyers often get into a rut on how to do things, and I was also looking for outside advice for general problems with implementing GTD, though I certainly appreciate your advice. :smile:

Busydave

03-08-2006, 05:10 AM

Try “The Motivated Mind” by Raj Persaud. His chapter on procrastination (“Is time running out? Time to get ahead”) is worth the price of the book … no wait; make that worth ten times the price of the book.

Dave

TesTeq

03-12-2006, 09:22 PM

What is interesting is if I were as rich as Oprah, those types of things would NOT cause a problem for me at all. I would simply get a representative in, tell them exactly what I want, and get it handled in hours. For a new house, I would just bring in a house designer, have some meetings, and get the process rolling. So I would be able to Delegate quickly, and actually ENJOY following up and monitoring those types of things, as long as I did not have to do the "grunt work"! (no I was not spoiled or born rich, quite the opposite!)
So 'money' is definitely part of the block around these types of things, due to the fact I am not as rich as Oprah at this time. (Of course, we can make projects and objectives to move ourselves in the direction of creating more personal wealth).
Isn't it just an excuse? There is no way to become rich if you are a chronic procrastinator (unless you've inhertited millions of dollars or won the lottery). Money is not the solution - it is the result.

flexiblefine

03-13-2006, 02:26 PM

One other thing that got me too, is PERFECTIONISM. I could have done the project crappily in 5 hours, but perfectionism can kick in, and sometimes you just can't let it go. I happen to think perfectionism is NOT a good thing, and that can cause procrastination as well.

The solution to that for me is to learn how to enjoy doing things badly.
Perfectionism is one of my personal "problems" that leads to procrastination. If I can't do something right (and sometimes my idea of "right" seems to include "all in one session"), I put it off until I can. Which means some things get put off for a long time.

With a little discipline (a little PYA, anyway), I can get started on these things and come to a decision that getting them done at all is more important than getting them done perfectly.

If we keep waiting to be perfectly prepared to do something, or if we keep waiting until we can concentrate perfectly, or if we wait for anything at all to be perfect, we will spend a lot of time waiting and not a lot of time making progress.

When there is clear urgency attached to a project, my perfectionism seems to fade sufficiently for me to get things done. (That's what happened last week at work, which is why I haven't chimed in here.) The voice in my head that says "gotta get it done now" keeps pushing me to work and keeps pushing other things out of the way.

Without that urgency, I often have trouble keeping things moving on my own, but removing the urgency from so many things is one of the points of GTD -- doing things when they show up, not when they blow up. If I can truly learn to be content with an imperfect, human effort, I should eventually need less PYA to GTD. :)

theoconbrio

03-15-2006, 10:17 AM

This is an excellent thread. CosmoGTD, I think you've really nailed precisely the problem I've always had implementing whatever personal development / organizational improvement / efficiency system I've tried. I procrastinate like mad, I'm perfectionistic, I doubt my ability, I fear success, etc. It's easy to make list after list after list and fantasize about how all this will help me clarify values and so on, but the rubber hits the road at the point where "DO IT" becomes "DOING IT." It is that moment where I usually find myself suddenly drawn to Web surfing, or working on a "more urgent" (read: less scary) project. What I have been looking for is a gentle way to PYA, because I find that if I think of it as an authoritarian "just do it" command, then I am more likely to resist it, even (especially) if it is wholly internal, unrelated to externally imposed requirements and deadlines.

This is particularly important in my current job, which requires that I be highly self-motivated, generate my own work, and work without external deadlines. GTD has been a godsend because it's helped me simplify my systems and focus on the lower level. But I still get stuck on "DO IT."

I hope that others will continue to chime in with their own experiences in this thread.