seeking ideas on how to combine birds-eye (40,000) view with day to day usage of GtD

[njnjboy]

Hello GTDers,

It's been a while since the last time I've posted. Many thanks to Bernard and company for all the excellent suggestions on making my weekly review useful, meaningful, and under an hour (http://www.davidco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4718).

I am still using a palm and memoleaf (a memopad organizer) as my way of getting all my projects entered and used (in terms of context, etc...).

My current question/issue deals with the birds-eye view part of GtD (20,000 foot, 40,000 foot...choose whatever height you want in terms of the name...I'll use "birds-eye" as the term for it). I am looking for an approach to this view, rather then specific tools (memoleaf and palm have worked really well for me).

I understand that the fundamental unit of a Next Action (NA) is a physical step, but I'm encountering some problems with projects that are part of a bigger overall goal. An example, might be the best way to describe my problem.

Ok - so I have a bunch of overall goals in my life with their own priority. These goals are much higher level "projects" than day to day projects. I'd call these "meta-projects" since they're more abstract and quite removed from a physical next action. So for example, lets say I have the following life goals (as birds-eye as I can get):



1. live a long and healthy life
2. spend meaningful time with my spouse
3. be financially healthy so that I can retire early

Now on a day-to-day basis, I'm dealing with many different projects. Many of which have nothing to do with the above goals (for example, a project called "get 200,000 miles out of Honda" or "fix up bathroom in apartment"). At the same time, when I empty my head and create projects, there are some that fit under the above goals. Now these related projects come into my head, and I drain them into projects. For example:
Under #1 goal I might have the following projects:
- "find exercise that I can do twice a week on a lifelong basis" (and this project would have the physical steps of: "search web for chart on types of exercises", "figure out how to measure effectiveness of walking", etc...)
- "take multi vitamins on a daily basis" (again - physical steps of choosing vitamins, tracking, and making this a recurring project)

Under goal #2, I might have the following projects:
- "figure out daily activities where we can spend time together" (again - physical actions may be: "list current activities", "talk to partner about her ideal things to do together", etc...)
- "find weekend activities to do with spouse and friends" (physical actions would be: "research museums" (which might have even more physical steps to it like "google for local museums"

For goal #3, I might have the following (a lot more than the following, but these are some of them):
- "cull and figure possible gold and/or oil investment strategy" (physical steps would be things like: "read Grham bk first for $ mgmt method", "figure out a behavior that will suit you for long term", "focus on incremental improvement"
- "Learn to trade for a living w/o dependence on boss" (physical steps would be things like: "explore lazy investing", "read/reviewTrading Now by Alex Deer (Author)", etc...)

Now keeping in mind that projects related to life goals can come at any moment, and I am looking for a cohesive way of ordering the projects related to each goal would be very helpful in having a somewhat focused approach on approaching that goal over a long period of time, while at the same time keeping to the GtD minute-to-minute concepts of context and physical actions.

One thought I had was to take each goal and have the related projects underneath it in one listing, and then split off the projects so that I can actually do them. What I mean is have something like following:

1. live a long and healthy life
- "find exercise that I can do twice a week on a lifelong basis"
-- "search web for chart on types of exercises"
-- "figure out how to measure effectiveness of walking", etc...)
- "take multi vitamins on a daily basis"
-- research "healthy" vitamins on google
-- research medical articles on effectives of specific proportions or specific brand (consumer reports perhaps)
-- choose a company that's been around for a while
...
2. spend meaningful time with my spouse
- project outcome
-- project physical next action steps
...
3. be financially healthy so that I can retire early
- project outcome
-- project physical next action steps
...

Now the problem that I have with the above approach is the inflexibility of such a long list. When I move projects from the above list to a memo format, then when I update the physical steps on that project, they're gone from the overall approach of the life goal. This is an issue that goes beyond a context problem.

My questions:

1. how do you folks maintain a birds-eye perspective above the day-to-day minutiae of projects? (i.e. do you have one project (for life type goals) that lists other projects as NAs? Do you review it weekly? How do you see the forest in spite of the trees (i.e. the sequence of projects supporting a life goal, as opposed to life goal itself?)
2. How do you chain multiple projects that belong to one birds-eye category?
3. How do you cohesively organize which NA of which project in a particular (birds eye) category will be done so that you're marching forward in accomplishing your overall birds-eye category? (i.e. sequence in time...I'm not talking about context here).

Thank you for your help.

njnjboy

[moises]

Hi njnjboy,

I view your question as a question about tools. This kind of question arises with great regularity.

First, your three example goals look much more like Areas of Responsibility. I have one called Health, another called Fitness, another called Husband, another called Personal Finance. I then organize my projects under these areas of responsibility.

I review these areas of responsibility once a year. At that time I also create 1-year goals for myself. I review these 1-year goals weekly at the beginning of my weekly review.

I use a tool called Achieve Planner. What David Allen calls Areas of Responsibility, Achieve Planner calls Result Areas. Achieve Planner is a particularly powerful outliner. Others on this forum use other outlining tools.

When I look at my commitments in Achieve Planner, I can choose to see all my projects and actions listed under my Areas of Responsibility. I run a small business so I have lots of Areas of Responsibility: Purchasing, Marketing, Sales, Property Management, Human Resources, etc. When I look at my lists, I can decide whether to group them by Areas of Responsibility or not. I usually do look at them that way. Thus, I can see what's on my plate under Inventory Control, what are the next actions for New Product Development, etc.

Other times I might only want to view my commitments by context, or by due date. Having the right tool makes a big difference.

GTD is platform-neutral. But I believe that the explosion in GTD's popularity is directly due to the advancements in the technology of digital planning systems. You don't have to go digital but it makes a huge difference.

I am not a gadget freak. I used the Outlook Add-In for more than three years. I would read posts on this forum about this or that software and decide that it wasn't worth it. Finally I was convinced by the posts of Andersons that having the right technology can bring about large boosts in productivity.

Your question demonstrates why. At different times I like to see my system organized differently. Sometimes I want to know what commitments I have made to support my role as a Father. Other times I want to see all the tasks related to my project "Research cardiovascular exercises." I have learned that having the right tool gives me a big boost when it comes to planning at higher altitudes.

David Allen is right. It's hard to plan at higher altitudes when the runway is a cluttered mess. He says that conceptually we should plan our highest level goals first and then work our way down. But he finds in practice that many people's runways are chaotic. There is no way they can do higher level planning.

He described me perfectly. I wasn't ready for much higher level planning when I started GTD. I wasn't ready for the more complex outlining tools. I made the right decision for the first few years to reject those tools. But the more I did GTD the more effective I became at longer-range planning. And the more effective I became at longer-range planning, the more I had a need for the powerful planning capabilities of a tool like Achieve Planner.

As kewms constantly reminds us: if you can't accomplish what you want with the tools you have, get a different tool.

[Jamie Elis]

I don't use this, yet, but I have been walking through the write-up on it that one can own load from Llamagraphics. I believe several posters on this forum are quite enamored with it.

[mcogilvie]

Hello GTDers,
So for example, lets say I have the following life goals (as birds-eye as I can get):

1. live a long and healthy life
2. spend meaningful time with my spouse
3. be financially healthy so that I can retire early



I generally use the DA altitude analogy, in which we have
0K Next Actions
10K Projects
20K Focus Areas/Roles
30K 1-2 Year Goals
40K 3-5 Year Goals
50K Life Goals

But I would say that your "life goals" aren't life goals at all. I think that Health, Family, and Finances are focus areas, and deserve to be looked at at least every month, to make sure that my current projects reflect where I want to be headed. One simple sentence can be enough, or perhaps as much as a paragraph. No need to list projects- if you can't figure out which of your current projects are related to those focus areas, then you know you have a problem. You can have 1-2 year goals reviewed every quarter, and higher reviewed every year, or as often as you need. The trick to learn is this: when you look at the different levels, are you comfortable with where you are and where you are headed? If you aren't, fill in what you need to at lower levels to get comfortable. This can require a lot of honesty in self-appraisal. But generally, it doesn't require a lot of tracking and linking.

Returning to your life goals, how will you know when you have had a long, healthy life? When you're dead? What if you don't have good health, through accident or genetics or whatever? Will you have failed? Suppose your financial decisions don't work out, and you end up as a 75-year-old greeter at Walmart. You want to be as healthy as possible now, to make your spouse happy now, to act responsibly on finances now. It's ok to say, for example: it's early in my career, prospects look good, I have college loans, I'm going to focus on paying off my loans, socking away money into a Roth IRA, and building good financial habits. Or to say that a child's college costs will lead to reduced savings for the next four years. And what if congress changes social security? It's ok to have a life goal of financial security, but the meaning of that goal will change in time for you, and be reflected in all the lower levels.

[njnjboy]

Hello Moises,

Thank you for responding to my post.



First, your three example goals look much more like Areas of Responsibility. I have one called Health, another called Fitness, another called Husband, another called Personal Finance. I then organize my projects under these areas of responsibility.


You're right - "areas of responsibility" is the correct name for it. Where would you place projects such as "fix bathroom"? A generic or miscellaneous titled area of a responsiblity would be a bad place to go (in my opinion).



I review these areas of responsibility once a year. At that time I also create 1-year goals for myself. I review these 1-year goals weekly at the beginning of my weekly review.


Ok - so when you say you create 1-year goals for yourself, do you mean goals with concrete next action steps or more higher level goals? For me, the creation of such goals only once a year seems to be too static.




I use a tool called Achieve Planner. What David Allen calls Areas of Responsibility, Achieve Planner calls Result Areas. Achieve Planner is a particularly powerful outliner. Others on this forum use other outlining tools.

When I look at my commitments in Achieve Planner, I can choose to see all my projects and actions listed under my Areas of Responsibility. I run a small business ...
Other times I might only want to view my commitments by context, or by due date. Having the right tool makes a big difference.


You're absolutley correct about using the right tool - no disagreements there. Achieve Planner seems like a very good tool...if you use Windows only (I'll elaborate more on this below).



GTD is platform-neutral. But I believe that the explosion in GTD's popularity is directly due to the advancements in the technology of digital planning systems. You don't have to go digital but it makes a huge difference.
... Andersons that having the right technology can bring about large boosts in productivity.

Your question demonstrates why. At different times I like to see my system organized differently. Sometimes I want to know what commitments I have made to support my role as a Father. Other times I want to see ...the right tool gives me a big boost when it comes to planning at higher altitudes.


Again - I agree. I've been struggling with the tools issue ever since I've gone down the GtD path. I'm a "mobile" user in the sense that I have to have the GtD related device on me. Consequently, windows doesn't work because I can't lug a laptop everywhere I go (and the devices that are windows laptop which are small are prohibitvley small). Consequently, I'm left with PDA (whether PDA only or phone/pda combination). In my case, I've been using a palm tungsten C for a long time. With the seemingly inevitable demise of palm as a platform (no flames please on this...just my own opinion and observation), the next device is likely to be a windows mobile device.

In any case, when I started to use the palm as my GtD device I explored various programs such as LifeBalance, the todo list, outliners, and the memo pad. I settled on the memopad in combination with memoleaf because I wanted a non-proprietary system that I could easily save as text (and with memo - you can save it to word, txt file, etc...). I also wanted to minimize the amount of extra programs I install when I install the palm desktop and memopad seemed useful for this reason too, since it comes built in with palm desktop.

It seems, based on what you've described, that I have to revisit the tools arena, and come to terms that my usage of memopad as a hammer for all things GtD will not work for high level views such as areas of responsibilities. Obviously, for me, I need a tool that can run on palm, windows, and windows mobile (in the future). It seems like LifeBalance might warrant a new look (last time, it's prioritzation system left me a little queasy due to it's fuzzy "life balancing" capabilities).

If you (or anyone else) has any suggestions about other tools that fit the bill in terms of the above platforms - please let me know.




David Allen is right. It's hard to plan at higher altitudes when the runway is a cluttered mess. He says that conceptually we should plan our highest level goals first and then work our way down. But he finds in practice that many people's runways are chaotic. There is no way they can do higher level planning.

He described me perfectly. I wasn't ready for much higher level planning when I started GTD. I wasn't ready for the more complex outlining tools. I made the right decision for the first few years to reject those tools. But the more I did GTD the more effective I became at longer-range planning. And the more effective I became at longer-range planning, the more I had a need for the powerful planning capabilities of a tool like Achieve Planner.

As kewms constantly reminds us: if you can't accomplish what you want with the tools you have, get a different tool.

I think that you hit the nail on the head. I've finally gotten my life around the day-to-day planning and usage of GtD and now I'm ready to look at higher level planning. Granted, I'm not looking forward to migrate and actively categorize under areas of responsibility all my projects from my memopads, but it seems like a step that I have to do.

Once again, thank you for your feedback and insight.

njnjboy

[njnjboy]

Hello Mcogilvie,

Thank you for your response...lots of food for thought.


I generally use the DA altitude analogy, in which we have
0K Next Actions
10K Projects
20K Focus Areas/Roles
30K 1-2 Year Goals
40K 3-5 Year Goals
50K Life Goals


In terms of recording this down - projects (for me) have next actions, so 10k and 0k seems to be mixed together.



But I would say that your "life goals" aren't life goals at all. I think that Health, Family, and Finances are focus areas, and deserve to be looked at at least every


You're right - I mis-stated these. They're my "areas of responsibility" in GtD terms (as moises clarified).



month, to make sure that my current projects reflect where I want to be headed. One simple sentence can be enough, or perhaps as much as a paragraph. No need to list projects- if you can't figure out which of your current projects are related to those focus areas, then

Ok - so I'm a little unclear here. Day-to-day life throws curve balls at you. One of GtD's greatest strenghts is the ability to dynamically deal with those curve balls. For example, your used car overheats and you have to get it repaired - so the project outcome is: "repair overheat problem with honda" and this has a bunch of physical next actions. What area of responsibilty does this fall into? How do I separate the "important" projects from the curve balls that I have to deal with and keep my long term view clear in spite of the daily crap?



you know you have a problem. You can have 1-2 year goals reviewed every quarter, and higher reviewed every year, or as often as you need. The trick to learn is this: when you look at the different levels, are you comfortable with where you are and where you are headed? If you aren't, fill in what you need to at lower levels to get comfortable. This can require a lot of honesty in self-appraisal. But generally, it doesn't require a lot of tracking and linking.


I think that I'm missing the boat here. I'm really good at keeping to the system and getting through the daily day-to-day projects. However, when I climb to higher levels, things start to fall apart. Perhaps one problem is the tool I use (just memopad from palm), perhaps another problem is my general approach.

Can you provide details (in more concrete steps) of how you break down and distinguish 1-2 year goals from daily stuff from lifetime?

Also - what tool do you use for both higher level organization and day to day curve balls?



Returning to your life goals, how will you know when you have had a long, healthy life? When you're dead? What if you don't have good health, through accident or genetics or whatever? Will you have failed? Suppose


Ok - so you're indicating that I need to clarify the outcomes that I would like to have (granted - whether they happen or not is a different story...I could drop dead at any time). That's the frustrating part for me - the fuzziness of defining such outcomes without concrete steps verus outcomes that are clearly defined (i.e. the curve balls). I know I'm being retentive about this, but I can't help but feel that I'm missing the point.



your financial decisions don't work out, and you end up as a 75-year-old greeter at Walmart. You want to be as healthy as possible now, to make your spouse happy now, to act responsibly on finances now. It's ok to say, for example: it's early in my career, prospects look good, I have college loans, I'm going to focus on paying off my loans, socking away money into a Roth IRA, and building good financial habits. Or to say that a child's college costs will lead to reduced savings for the next four years. And what if congress changes social security? It's ok to have a life goal of financial security, but the meaning of that goal will change in time for you, and be reflected in all the lower levels.

Ok - so as you said the meaning of the goal changes over time. One big problem (again - perhaps a tool issue) is reflecting this change in meaning across the concrete projects that form the steps for this goal. A change in meaning ultimately translates to a change in concrete actions. So if the child college costs will reduce my savings, then my projects that support the financial security goal will change in terms of concrete next actions...how do you push that change out to all projects supporting the "financial security" goal?

(sigh) I'm not sure that I'm clear about a good approach for this, though it's clear I have some issues in terms of long range planning :-(

njnjboy

[kewms]

It's not clear whether you are asking a "tools" question, or a "philosophy" question. I think the philosophy question is more interesting, so I'll answer that one instead. After all, you can't pick a tool until you know what philosophy you're trying to implement.

First of all, how is it possible for something you have to do to *not* lie within one of your areas of responsibility? If you aren't responsible for it, you don't have to do it, right?

And no, I'm not just playing semantic games. My point is that things like "fix bathroom" or "take car to shop" are every bit as important to "spend meaningful time with spouse" as flowers and nice dinners. A spouse who has to call the plumber and gets stranded by the side of the road just isn't going to be open to anything you have to say. Would you be?

I think that's one of DA's most important insights, actually. You can't have a smoothly functioning life without doing all sorts of things that don't show up on your "Things To Do Before I Die" list, so your system had better make room for that stuff.

Second of all, I'm not sure I understand your question:

3. How do you cohesively organize which NA of which project in a particular (birds eye) category will be done so that you're marching forward in accomplishing your overall birds-eye category? (i.e. sequence in time...I'm not talking about context here).

There are only two possible ways to move a category forward: discrete Next Actions (Go to gym Thursday.) and current projects (Buy new running shoes). (You can have Someday/Maybe projects too -- run Boston Marathon, say -- but they aren't moving the category forward.)

So, you sit down at your Weekly Review, and you ask yourself which actions and which projects you want to do this week. And you do them. And then you do another Weekly Review. And so forth. Many people, myself included, find it helpful to do Monthly and Annual Reviews as well. I like to see what I have planned for the month and see how I'm doing on my goals for the year. But it all comes down to Weekly Reviews, Next Actions, and Projects.

From there, it isn't clear whether your difficulty is in setting goals in the first place, or in capturing the results of your planning in your system. Even if it's both, you might find it best to use the simplest possible tools (pen and paper, maybe?) while you work out the goals. Finding a capture system is the easy part.

Katherine

[jpm]

This is a common and difficult question. For most people it starts out as a tools problem. However, it is really more of a process problem than a tools problem.

While there is clearly a gap in the availability of appropriate tools to handle the problem from a largely conceptual standpoint (particularly if you feel you need an integrated system that sync's with a handheld). There is also a lack of fundamental understanding which leads to an overcomplication of the system.

An example of this is oft used approach of hierarchical outliners. While there are no shortage of such tools that sync with a palm (and I suppose with mobile phones and pocket windows devices) there are none that sync well with Outlook which is the PIM that 90+% of US employees are required to use.

Further, the first challenge one faces is that a hierarchical system requires that a one-to-many relationship, and in life sometimes a many-to-many relationship is more practical. For example does "Attend Yoga with my wife" belong under Fitness or Personal Relationship? Probably both. The nice thing is these kinds of projects/actions are key because they advance two (or more projects) instead of just one.

There is also the challenge of expansion. 5 Long term goals with 3 1-3 year goals each, all with 4 areas of responsibility with 5 projects each with 3 next actions yields: 5 x 3 x 4 x 5 x 3 = 900 next actions. Regardless of what you call the levels of perspective, there is the simple fact that the more focus areas you have, the less you focus on.

The most effective people I've ever met had a single mindedness about them that is what made them succesful. The KISS principle applies. Simplicity equals focus. Focus results in action. Action delivers results.

This brings us back to the question of tools vs. process. By making things too complex we look for a tool to solve the problem. By having the maturity to make decisions about what is truly most important in our lives we give ourselves the power to say no (or at least someday/mabye) to the less important things.

When we simplify. Less complex tools are required. When we simplify and do the weekly review weekly, then once we have included at least a cursory review of our higher altitudes during the weekly review it is obvious which focus area and goals a project belongs to. There is no need to connect these through technology.

David spoke about this at Roadmap in San Francisco and it really wasn't until then that I got it. He was speaking specifically about linking next actions to projects on the Palm, but the principle applies to the higher perspectives as well.

Use a simple tool to map out the higher perspectives (Altitutdes). MindManager is great if you like mind maps. A word file is fine and is transferable to the Palm. I have my 50, 40, 30, & 20,000 ft levels all in a three page word doc on my palm. For 10,000 ft. and below I use Outlook and the add-in. I've added a custom field for Focus Area for projects and do my weekly review by focus area. If I need to refer or adjust above that level, I have the info in Word.

It seems to work fine for me. Clean & simple. Not overly complex and I spend more time working on my goals and a lot less tinkering and hacking software.

jpm

[Brent]

I have a simple, consistent way of doing exactly what the original poster describes:

The Monthly Review

Every month, as part of my Weekly Review, I review my higher-level goals/desires and sync them up with my projects.

[mcogilvie]

In terms of recording this down - projects (for me) have next actions, so 10k and 0k seems to be mixed together.


Not mixed, I hope, but you probably want them connected. This is a complicated issue for many, so I will leave it alone.



Ok - so I'm a little unclear here. Day-to-day life throws curve balls at you. One of GtD's greatest strenghts is the ability to dynamically deal with those curve balls. For example, your used car overheats and you have to get it repaired - so the project outcome is: "repair overheat problem with honda" and this has a bunch of physical next actions. What area of responsibilty does this fall into? How do I separate the "important" projects from the curve balls that I have to deal with and keep my long term view clear in spite of the daily crap?

Where you put fixing your car depends on you. You might have a focus area of taking care of your material possessions. I don't bother, because I generally don't need the reminder. You might be fixing your car because you intend to sell it soon (1-2 year goal), you might be concerned about getting to work on time (focus area), you might want your car to last for 3-5 more years (3-5 year goal). Higher levels interact with each other in compicated ways. For example, I am starting a major financial review, renovating the first floor of our home, and giving the wedding and wedding reception for our daughter. Since all three projects involve money and time in a major way, they interact. Two of them will be fininished this month, while the third will go on for about six months but have lifetime consequences.

Another point: all my projects are important at some level. If you take the attitude that only important projects are worth your time, you will do a bad job on the "less important" projects. You have to give all your projects the attention they need, not more, but not less. I struggle with this, and I think most people do.



I think that I'm missing the boat here. I'm really good at keeping to the system and getting through the daily day-to-day projects. However, when I climb to higher levels, things start to fall apart. Perhaps one problem is the tool I use (just memopad from palm), perhaps another problem is my general approach.

Can you provide details (in more concrete steps) of how you break down and distinguish 1-2 year goals from daily stuff from lifetime?

Also - what tool do you use for both higher level organization and day to day curve balls?


I have a category on my palm called "Review 20K-50K" where I put the higher level stuff. There's aren't that many items, honestly, and it helps to see them all together. They do not really form a hierarchy.



Ok - so you're indicating that I need to clarify the outcomes that I would like to have (granted - whether they happen or not is a different story...I could drop dead at any time). That's the frustrating part for me - the fuzziness of defining such outcomes without concrete steps verus outcomes that are clearly defined (i.e. the curve balls). I know I'm being retentive about this, but I can't help but feel that I'm missing the point.

Ok - so as you said the meaning of the goal changes over time. One big problem (again - perhaps a tool issue) is reflecting this change in meaning across the concrete projects that form the steps for this goal. A change in meaning ultimately translates to a change in concrete actions. So if the child college costs will reduce my savings, then my projects that support the financial security goal will change in terms of concrete next actions...how do you push that change out to all projects supporting the "financial security" goal?

(sigh) I'm not sure that I'm clear about a good approach for this, though it's clear I have some issues in terms of long range planning :-(

njnjboy

Let's go back to finances, since this is an issue for most people. Let's say you want financial security, which might mean that you are comfortable with long-range prospects, have a decent income stream to support current lifestyle, and have the ability to absorb reasonable financial setbacks. Are these three things true at this time? If not, what needs to be done to make them true? Once you know what needs to be done, you can think about whether those things are projects, 1-2 year goals, or whatever. For example, let's say you have $10K of credit card debt, which needs to be paid down. You may have options: home-equity loan, take from savings, bankruptcy, switch credit cards, get a better-paying job, et cetera. The horizons flow from the choices you make. Suppose you find out that you would need to pay $40K/year to send your daughter to MIT for four years. You can't just set a goal, you need to think things through. Perhaps you have a next-action item to talk to your spouse or your daughter, a project of reviewing current finances. a 3-5 year goal of looking further ahead with your next child. As DA says, we live on all these levels.

Hope this helps.

[ReBuild]

I have only skimmed through this post, so forgive me if I'm off base.

However, you may find Charles R Hobbs book - Time Power useful (ISBN 0-06-091490-4 (Paperback). He spends a good amount of time on higher order issues and their incorporation into ones day to day life. Hobbs by way of background is/appears to be the "grandfather" of time management programs. Having just gone back over his book it is as fresh today as when it was first written. Please note that if you want to get a copy you will need to look on the 2nd hand market.

[mcogilvie]

I have only skimmed through this post, so forgive me if I'm off base.

However, you may find Charles R Hobbs book - Time Power useful (ISBN 0-06-091490-4 (Paperback). He spends a good amount of time on higher order issues and their incorporation into ones day to day life. Hobbs by way of background is/appears to be the "grandfather" of time management programs. Having just gone back over his book it is as fresh today as when it was first written. Please note that if you want to get a copy you will need to look on the 2nd hand market.

I have the Hobbs book, and have read it several times. The Franklin part of Franklin-Covey, i.e. Hyrum Smith rather than Covey, derives from Hobbs. Smith's books are better, in my opinion, but honestly, top-down planning never worked very well for me. Jenny Ditzler's book, Your Best Year Yet, is a pretty good guided exploration of the higher altitudes, and in print. You can easily layer any of the popular schemes (e.g. values, roles, goals) on top of projects and next actions if you want. It's no big deal to try some of the exercises in, say, one of Covey's books. If they provide clarity and focus for you, fine, and if not, try something else. Some of the exercises used in some books may have impact only the first time you see them. Ditler's book is good for me, because it's easily reusable.

[gtderik]

David spoke about this at Roadmap in San Francisco and it really wasn't until then that I got it. He was speaking specifically about linking next actions to projects on the Palm, but the principle applies to the higher perspectives as well.

jpm

I went to the Roadmap in Minneapolis. I had been confused by this very issue, but it wasn't until David spoke about the Horizons of Focus that I finally understood it. His example was extremely simple but extremely useful. It's important to understand the 5 levels and to keep them separate (I think that someone here blended 0k and 10k). I am starting to learn that only when you keep them separate, but see that they are related- that it works. An example could be dinner out with the wife (project, 10k) which simultaneously links to 20k (being a loving husband area of focus) but also to 0k call and get reservations at restaurant. The levels are Interrelated, but also independent. This was a huge breakthrough for me... I finally had a place to store those fuzzier higher altitude items I wanted to track. For those that havent been to the Roadmap, its worth it.

[Borisoff]

Sometimes it's funny to realize that being a father or a husband is a Project :)

Life is life and being a husband is a job as well :) But not paid though :)

Regards

Eugene.

[njnjboy]

Hello Katherine,

Thank you for your response.



...
First of all, how is it possible for something you have to do to *not* lie within one of your areas of responsibility? If you aren't responsible for it, you don't have to do it, right?

And no, I'm not just playing semantic games. My point is that things like "fix bathroom" or "take car to shop" are every bit as important to "spend meaningful time with spouse" as flowers and nice dinners. A spouse who has to call the plumber and gets stranded by the side of the road just isn't going to be open to anything you have to say. Would you be?


You're absolutley right that it's part of some area of responsiblity. However, my issue is being able to cohesively view the 40k view of the area of responsiblity of "have a great relationship with my spouse" while combining it with the day-to-day stuff that shows up like "fix the car" which affects this area of responsiblity. The tools part does affect this in the sense that being able to rapidly change "magnification" of the projects that underlie an area of responsibility helps flow. In other words, if I am planning the above area of responsiblity during a yearly 40k view and I have a bunch of projects related to it (with their concrete steps): "do something unusual every month" (obviously - this would need concrete steps), "assist with her xyz project", etc... - this is all fine and good on 40k level. But then the "fix the car" crops up and the nice 40k view of overall approach to this area of responsiblity falls apart as the day to day curve balls get in the way.

So my question(s) deal with how do you combine the macro of the 40k view with the micro of the day-to-day stuff that crops up within the various areas of responsibilities.




...
Second of all, I'm not sure I understand your question:

"""
3. How do you cohesively organize which NA of which project in a particular (birds eye) category will be done so that you're marching forward in accomplishing your overall birds-eye category? (i.e. sequence in time...I'm not talking about context here).
"""


There are only two possible ways to move a category forward: discrete Next Actions (Go to gym Thursday.) and current projects (Buy new running shoes). (You can have Someday/Maybe projects too -- run Boston Marathon, say -- but they aren't moving the category forward.)

So, you sit down at your Weekly Review, and you ask yourself which actions and which projects you want to do this week. And you do them. And then you do another Weekly Review. And so forth. Many people, myself included, find it helpful to do Monthly and Annual Reviews as well. I like to see what I have planned for the month and see how I'm doing on my goals for the year. But it all comes down to Weekly Reviews, Next Actions, and Projects.

From there, it isn't clear whether your difficulty is in setting goals in the first place, or in capturing the results of your planning in your system. Even if it's both, you might find it best to use the simplest possible tools (pen and paper, maybe?) while you work out the goals. Finding a capture system is the easy part.



I do the Weekly Reviews, Next Actions, and Project as you state. However, I feel that my view of the higher level 40k view is not there. Perhaps you're right - perhaps it is goal setting. I just don't see a clear methodology in translating the yearly goals to concrete projects in such a way that I don't lose the perspective of the overall goal while unexpected projects crop up in particular areas of responsibilities noisily drowning out the overall direction and high level goals supporting an area of responsiblity.

njnjboy

[Jamie Elis]

At one time when I was in a real crisis and it would have been easy to forget what my real goals were, I wrote them on index cards and read the cards to myself at various transitions throughout the day. The more I read them, the more I improved on the wording and made the statements more succinct and I started to focus much more clearly on what was in support of my goals. I think this is really helpful, especially if one is exposed to people and situations that can pull you off your intended course.

[sonia_simone]

My inclination would be to add some projects (or maybe even simple NAs) to your lists when you do that 40K review. So that the 40K review partly consists of answering that question, how do I translate this to my daily workflow and life?

If you don't have answers to that question yet, then you need to keep asking it. "How do I translate my commitment to my marriage to an NA this week?" "How do I translate my commitment to physical fitness to a project, and how I will I track my progress on that project?"

GTD as outlined in the book only lightly touches on the techniques for managing routines & recurring actions, like a commitment to working out. Sure, call the gym for pricing is an NA, but how to manage the commitment once you have the gym membership. That's where I find checklists handy, and weekly tracking. Those things are not described in much detail in _GTD_.

[moises]

I went to the Roadmap in Minneapolis. I had been confused by this very issue, but it wasn't until David spoke about the Horizons of Focus that I finally understood it. His example was extremely simple but extremely useful. It's important to understand the 5 levels and to keep them separate (I think that someone here blended 0k and 10k). I am starting to learn that only when you keep them separate, but see that they are related- that it works. An example could be dinner out with the wife (project, 10k) which simultaneously links to 20k (being a loving husband area of focus) but also to 0k call and get reservations at restaurant. The levels are Interrelated, but also independent. This was a huge breakthrough for me... I finally had a place to store those fuzzier higher altitude items I wanted to track. For those that havent been to the Roadmap, its worth it.
Yes, in the tapes I have David talks about meeting clients. They ask him what they should do. His answer is that depends on what level you are asking the question.

Basically, this is the issue that David mentions at the beginning of the GTD book. He says that no one on their death bed wishes they had spent more time at the office. Presumably on one's deathbed one thinks of life-goals. David's point is that if your horizon is the next week, you will choose different actions than if your horizon is 10 years. If I remember, his example was something like staying late at work or going to Johnny's Little Leage (baseball) game.

My view is that life can confront us with difficult questions. I try to integrate these conflicting pulls as best I can. I will spend the next 10 minutes doing something. I may spend it pursuing a short-term project or a life-goal. The fact that short-term pleasures may conflict with long-term pleasures has been well-known. What we use our system for is to come up with a rational resolution of these conflicts.

Yes, we are not rational. But I do not celebrate my irrationality. I use my system to make more rational decisions than I did in my pre-system days.

I am working now. Someday I will be retired. I might decide that I will do certain actions in the next week that will yield big payoffs when I retire. I want all my commitments in one system.

I've said here before that I could imagine very well that someone on their deathbed might regret that they had not spent more time in the office. Maybe the office is where they were working on a wonderful novel, or creating a plan to solve the problem of global warming, or developing technology to alleviate world hunger. There might exist some people who find meaning and purpose in what they do at the office. Their office activities might be congruent with their life goals. Maybe when they are dying they may wish that they had smelled fewer roses and solved a few more equations, written a few more reports, or researched a few more cancer cures. Smelling roses can get to be like eating potato chips or having sex. It sure feels good but you can also do it too much.

[Borisoff]

I think the low end technic of this question is should we put at the begining or the end of the Next Action a whole stuff instead of only Project abbreviation i.e.:

[LIFE GOAL] [VISION] [GOALS] [ROLES] [PROJECTS] [NAs]

I feel comfortable with the following format:

[NAs] [PROJECT]

and keep all the rest for my Yearly Review when I review life goal, vision, purpose and outcoming projects and then put these projects on my Project List. If a new project comes my way I check if it's within my GOALs or not. If yes it goes to the Project List if not it goes to Trash.

Regards,

Eugene.

[kewms]

I do the Weekly Reviews, Next Actions, and Project as you state. However, I feel that my view of the higher level 40k view is not there. Perhaps you're right - perhaps it is goal setting. I just don't see a clear methodology in translating the yearly goals to concrete projects in such a way that I don't lose the perspective of the overall goal while unexpected projects crop up in particular areas of responsibilities noisily drowning out the overall direction and high level goals supporting an area of responsiblity.

A couple of things that have helped me ....

Make sure that your goals are concrete. The more clearly you've described them, the easier it is to find tangible steps in that direction.

At least once a year -- I like to do it in the quiet time between Christmas and New Year's -- sit down and translate long term goals to short term goals. For example, if a long term goal is to retire early, how much do you need to tuck away in the next year? Then, at least once a month, identify tangible projects toward your short term goals for that year. To meet your annual savings goal, how much must you save this month? This week?

Once you have clearly defined projects, getting them done is what GTD is good at.

Good luck!

Katherine

[Brent]

Excellent discussion so far!

I also wanted to add this quote from Getting Things Done:

"No software, seminar, cool personal planner, or personal mission statement will simplify your workday or make your choices for you as you move through your day, week, and life."

Some of this stuff is hard. Some if it can't be simplified. Some of it requires a lot of intense thought. No getting around it.

[Karmapapa]

I evolved this methodology over a number of years, in part to deal with the issues of overview, balance, and getting something do-able from vague goals. This works for me. Try it – if it works for you, great; if not, try something else.

1. Complete the freebie online “Your Best Year Yet Assessment”. You end up with clarification of values and roles, goals for the next 12 months, top 10 goals (which you can make to correspond with your top 10 roles or areas of responsibility or focus areas, whatever you want to call them), and sub-goals or projects for the next month.
2. I keep these monthly goals separate from Outlook. I use a Circus Ponies Notebook on my Mac, but have previously used a Word doc in outline format. Use whatever you like for these higher level goals.
3. This next step is optional. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don’t have time for it. It is not entirely necessary if you proceed straight to step 4 and consistently do a weekly review that includes a quick review of monthly goals. Ironically, sometimes when things are hot its better to carve out time for it to ensure balance, or at least temporary conscious imbalance.
Anyway, step 3 is :- at the weekly review, create a weekly plan (taking the monthly goals as a template) drilling down sub-goals or projects based on the monthly plan. Again I don’t put this in Outlook. I print it & stick a copy in my 2 page per day Daytimer (pocket size), which I use only as a capture tool & journal of “Magic Moments and Accomplishments” (hey there, RPM/OPA’ers!), for occasional review.
4. Then, as part of the Weekly Review create projects and next actions from either the weekly plan (if you inserted step 3) or from the monthly plan if you did not. These do go into outlook, either through a Windoze PC at Work or via Entourage on the Mac, synced to an old iPaq (used more or less exclusively just for GTD).
5. I have categories set up for each of my personal and professional Areas of Responsibility or Focus Areas (Mind/Body/Spirit/Home-maker/Client work; business development etc) as well as the standard GTD NAs. Each project is categorised under what appears to me at the time to be the most applicable category – some projects benefit more than one area but its usually not a big deal for me to go intuitively with one area – I don’t stress out about whether this should be “there” rather than “here” – for me its enough if its somewhere! Professional Projects are key-coded (e.g. by client reference e.g. SHE/0042) but personal ones are not – its sufficient for me to look at Projects sorted by Category with the tasks collapsed which provides a simple count of the number of projects under the category headings, to see where I might be out of balance and factor that into the next weekly review.
6. Do the Weekly Review weekly, converting the goals into projects and NAs. It’s the best way I’ve found to make the associations between NAs, personal projects & goals, instead of fretting about coding them in some way. I’ve found that if I skip weekly reviews, I stop trusting the system & lose the benefit of the top-down planning from YBYY.
7. Do a Monthly Review, adjusting the annual plan as required, and repeating steps 2-6.
8. Complete the YBYY process again in 12 month’s time (also sometimes helps to do it at 6 months’ in, to check if the goalposts have moved, consciously or subconsciously).

There’s no level higher than a 12 monthly view for me, but that’s simply because I’ve never found it helpful. In part, some of the thinking that is relevant to higher altitudes is done in creating the 12 monthly plan and determining your roles/values.

This methodology has helped give me the overview the OP mentioned, whilst translating goals into projects and NAs. I’m not affiliated to YBYY or Circus Ponies, only a satisfied customer.
HTH.
TTFN.

[njnjboy]

Hello Karmapapa,

Thank you for responding with such a thorough post. Your step by step explanation of your methodology is quite helpful.


I evolved this methodology over a number of years, in part to deal with the issues of overview, balance, and getting something do-able from vague goals. This works for me. Try it – if it works for you, great; if not, try something else.

1. Complete the freebie online “Your Best Year Yet Assessment”. You end up with clarification of values and roles, goals for the next 12 months, top 10 goals (which you can make to correspond with your top 10 roles or areas of responsibility or focus areas, whatever you want to call them), and sub-goals or projects for the next month.


I googled using the following term (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Your+Best+Year+Yet%22+online+Assessmen t&btnG=Search)
but have been unable to find this freebie...please advise as to url.




2. I keep these monthly goals separate from Outlook. I use a Circus Ponies ...
...out of balance and factor that into the next weekly review.
6. Do the Weekly Review weekly, converting the goals into projects and NAs. It’s the best way I’ve found to make the associations between NAs, personal projects & goals, instead of fretting about coding them in some way. I’ve found that if I skip weekly reviews, I stop trusting the system & lose the benefit of the top-down planning from YBYY.



This is very useful - your explanation of how you translate top level goals to runway level. I'll definitely get the YBYY book if I can't find the online freebie.



There’s no level higher than a 12 monthly view for me, but that’s simply because I’ve never found it helpful. In part, some of the thinking that is relevant to higher altitudes is done in creating the 12 monthly plan and determining your roles/values.

This methodology has helped give me the overview the OP mentioned, whilst translating goals into projects and NAs. I’m not affiliated to YBYY or Circus Ponies, only a satisfied customer.


I can see that my initial approach would be more along 12 months type.

Once again - thank you much for such a thorough explanation of your methodology.

njnjboy

[njnjboy]

Dear GtDers,

Thank you one and all for responding to my original post. This is my summary of what I have learned (including NAs for myself). I figured it is a good way to wrap up this thread, while giving me some concrete steps to move forward.

This thread has given me cause and opportunity to revisit the GtD book with particular attention to higher level planning (chapter 2 (p. 48 to end) and chapter 9, which is a much deeper elaboration of chap. 2). My conclusions (labeled as *) and my NAs (labeled as - and sub-levels using multiple dashes) are as follows:
* Tools are not my problem, but process, the philosophical aspect as mentioned by kwms is fundamentally my issue.
* Getting into the habit of cleaning the runway (0K level) and project creation (10K) through a trustworthy system that is practiced through collection process and weekly review is critical in allowing me to (now) see and examine upper level (i.e. vertical perspective rather than just horizontal). DA reinforces this path through the practical result oriented "bottom up" approach. The message for myself is "don't panic - you're on the right path," so my current "nagging" feeling that I need to learn and re-examine the vertical approach to GtD is a good way to go (for me). The anaology of "you must crawl before you walk, walk before you run" applies here, where the collection and Weekly Review process is part of the initial "crawling" stage.

- On the 0K / 10K level, I need to still improve (again DA's insistence on a bottom up approach and front end thinking as the "real-life" way of how we deal with "things"):
-- refine the front end processing of 0K / 10K levels with the (4) Criteria Model for choosing action in the moment (for me - my NAs have had context, but now I need to add time and energy, while relying on my intuition for priority [Ch 9. - p. 192]). When I had originally read the book, I had thought that I just need to choose one of these front end thinking methods. In re-reading Ch 9 - I realize that all these methods need to be applied in a layered way from the bottom up.
-- The 3-Fold Model of evaluating Daily Work (ch 9 - p. 196): I'm not sure if this is a notational approach to NAs (i.e. marking this on the NA text itself). For me, it's more of a way to filter "stuff that happens." In reading this section, I'm realizing that at work I fall into "doing work as it shows up" and at home, I fall into the habit of being sucked into tangential (web) link surfing. I suppose that rather than being a notational system, I need to somehow keep in front of my face the 3 questions associated with this model, so I can add this dimension of front end processing and moment-to-moment "flow" (or the goal towards getting to such flow).
- For the Six-Level Model (ch. 9 - p. 200)
-- Practice getting out of "perfection" mentality for 20-50K thinking
-- Create Palm category of 20K-50K (as mcogilvie had mentioned)
-- At 20K: define my "areas of responsibility" (aka "areas of focus" [p. 205] and "focus areas"):
--- Start labeling in-coming projects with "Focus Area" type of labels (for easier filtering and so that I can more easier consider particular projects at particular vertical levels)

-- 30K-50K: (again, I need to keep the practical bottom-up perspective)
--- Make sure I clean my RAM at 10K level (i.e. projects) and keep practicing and being consistent through activities such as the Weekly Review
--- Dedicate some time to:
---- Use DA questions from p. 208 to think about long term goals
---- Read / scan "Best Year Yet" as another source / method of clarifying these levels
---- Practice thinking about 30K-50K by reviewing on a monthly basis without guilt or worrying about the "perfection" of these goals. Allow the Someday/Maybe (SM) bin to get long range goals that don't intuitively feel right at the time.

Lots to do. Thanks to everyone for their help.

njnjboy