Trying to understand lists of actions

[genelong]

Hi - I'm a newbie still trying to get the basics of GTD down, and I find the process of separating items confusing.

I'm trying to figure out, after trashing, doing 2-minute items, and delegating actions, what I am left with. Here's my understanding:

reference (non-action items)
someday (actions waiting for weekly review decision to be made active)
calendar (actions waiting for a specific date)
deferred (actions waiting for some other event to occur)
action (action within a project list but waiting for the next action)
next action (actions to be done next)

Is this correct? It's not clear to me from the flowchart if this is where things wind up, but it's the best I can figure out.

I'll ask this much first, because if my understanding is wrong, it may solve my other problems. Thanks.

[kewms]

Yes, that's pretty much it. Deferred and future actions might go on your calendar, in your tickler file, or in your Waiting For list, depending on your system, but it looks like you've got the basics down.

Good luck!

Katherine

[genelong]

Okay, thanks. Then I have some questions. Since projects consist of groups of actions, should an entire project goes on the "someday" list if it's not active? I have probably a few hundred projects - since I've dumped every wish, hope, and need into my system - and if they are all active, and every one is supposed to have a "next action" item, I would have hundreds of "next action" items. What I've been doing is putting some items within a project on the "someday" list, and others on the "active" list, in order to keep my active list down, but I'm thinking that all actions within a project need to be moved to the "someday" list if I decide to postpone the project itself. Is this how people do it?

The basic problem I have had with my implementation of GTD so far is that I have so many projects, and so many individual action items, that my "someday" list is huge, and takes forever to go through, so I wind up not doing it - and then of course it becomes a black hole, and I never see my actions again. I have not seen any way of prioritizing the someday items within GTD, so going through hundreds of items is really very painful.

Also, my next actions list has also become unmanageable. I almost never empty a single context list within a day, because there are too many items on it, and more get added every day so that each context list keeps growing, and (my understanding is that) since you do each list from the top down in order, there is no prioritizing.

So some questions:

Are you in theory supposed to empty each context list every day? If not, how do you add items? Bottom of the list? Random? How do you prevent items that fall to the bottom of a context list from sitting there forever?

If you have hundreds of someday items and projects, how do you choose which ones to move to active during your weekly review? Again, without prioritizing, if I just pick the ones I "want" to get done this week, I wind up with so many next action items that they just never get done.

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but working from the book without seeing an actual system in action, it is hard to know where I am going wrong.

[Brent]

I think you're doing fine! Your questions are common ones.

Yes, the Someday/Maybe list is a list of Projects that you've consciously deferred. Actions are immediate Actions that you can do now on active Projects. Anything in your Someday/Maybe list shouldn't have corresponding Next Actions.

(That said, nobody will punish you if you decide to sneak forward on a Someday/Maybe project.)

You will probably never empty your context lists, and you're not supposed to. The context lists exist to tell you what you can do in a given context to move your active Projects forward.

Think about Next Actions as bookmarks in a Project. They exist to tell you where to start. You may get into a context, start on a Next Action, and continue in that vein until you leave the context. That's fine, as long as that's truly top priority and nothing else needs to be done.

About prioritizing: People often get confused about this. You need to consciously and mentally re-prioritize your context list every time you look at it. Decide what's most important right now. Because priority changes from one day to the next, and sometimes one hour to the next.

You wrote, "how do you choose which ones to move to active during your weekly review? Again, without prioritizing, if I just pick the ones I 'want' to get done this week, I wind up with so many next action items that they just never get done."

My favorite answer for this is metrics. How many projects did you complete last week? How many next actions? How many the week before? If you don't know, keep track for a few weeks. Then limit your number of active Projects to a number in that ballpark.

In other words, pick as many projects as you can comfortably make progress on. If you don't know how many that is, keep track of your actual progress for a while.

Does that answer your questions?

[TesTeq]

If you have hundreds of someday items and projects, how do you choose which ones to move to active during your weekly review?

Use your intuition and the higher levels (20k...50k) which define your goals and life mission. GTD will not make the choices for you.

Be realistic - do not activate new projects when you have no time to finish the projects that are already active!

[dschaffner]

Excellent questions, genelong.

I'd suggest that if a project is on the someday/maybe list, then it doesn't need a next action.

One of the things I've been working on over the long holiday break is getting my projects and next action lists pruned down so they are less overwhelming. It's been a very energizing and rewarding process.

One other tip that you might find useful: I've split my someday list into "someday/maybe", and "someday, just not this week" to distinguish things that I might do and things that I'm probably doing to do. In any event these are quick to review because it's just a matter of looking at an item for a second or two... even a list of 200 items can be scanned in a few minutes.

One other comment - its not that "you do each list from the top down in order, there is no prioritizing", it's my understanding that to look at each context list and choose the item that intuitively feels right.

I don't think you are "supposed to empty each context list every day", but ideally you should clear a significant percentage each week. Not that I'm the best example of this :) One of my [oh I hate to call them new years resolutions] "thingies" is to spend less time doing work as it shown up, but rather getting work on to my lists, and working from my lists.

Also, I think that ideally items that sit for on your lists for too long need to be reviewed, and moved to someday/maybe or have the next action refined or clarified.

Hopefully, these comments help. And others are sure to chime in too. This site is a great place to learn about how others are GTD.

- Don

[TesTeq]

I've split my someday list into "someday/maybe", and "someday, just not this week" to distinguish things that I might do and things that I'm probably doing to do. In any event these are quick to review because it's just a matter of looking at an item for a second or two... even a list of 200 items can be scanned in a few minutes.

Check this comment http://www.davidco.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35515&postcount=3 about Someday/Maybe lists.

[genelong]

Thanks, many of your comments are helpful.

Some more questions:

- I think of single stand-alone action items as the same as a "next action" in a project, and the other actions in a project as deferred until the "next action" is done. Is that how others see it?

- On prioritizing, I thought (I'd have to look it up) that the GTD magic of doing the context lists as opposed to a standard task list was that you don't decide in the moment which one to do - you decide when you make the list, then always do the next one on the list. I've found that useful in that if I keep choosing in the moment, the more disagreeable tasks tend to always be avoided, but if I go through in order, I have to face each one. Did I misunderstand?

- Here's a typical dilemma on prioritizing. I just completed my inbox, and I have a simple task, "buy a comforter", to process. Yes, I could break it down in to a project, but for now, assume that it's simple enough for one step. Now I try to decide should it be someday, or an action item for the "shopping" context. What I wind up doing is looking at my shopping context, see the huge number of undone tasks that feel more important, and so I stick it in someday. But I also know it will never come out of someday, because I will never empty my shopping context list, so it remains on my mind OUTSIDE of the GTD system as something I have to worry about, or it will never get done. Obviously counterproductive. But with too many things in my context list, I am doing my weekly review every time I try to pick the next task to do. Does this make sense what my dilemma is?

Thanks for the help, especially those of you who are patient and encouraging. I really like GTD so far, but it is still a struggle to make it work, and I want to make it work. I really need a good task system in my life. Thanks again.

[Brent]

- I think of single stand-alone action items as the same as a "next action" in a project, and the other actions in a project as deferred until the "next action" is done. Is that how others see it?

Yes, but to clarify: There's no need to write down or otherwise record any actions beyond the Next one. You can, but it's something else to keep track of. You only need to write down the next thing.


- On prioritizing, I thought (I'd have to look it up) that the GTD magic of doing the context lists as opposed to a standard task list was that you don't decide in the moment which one to do - you decide when you make the list, then always do the next one on the list. I've found that useful in that if I keep choosing in the moment, the more disagreeable tasks tend to always be avoided, but if I go through in order, I have to face each one. Did I misunderstand?

That's not how I understand GTD. You do decide in the moment which one to do. If I make a list on Sunday, how can I know which item will be most important on Friday?


Here's a typical dilemma on prioritizing. I just completed my inbox, and I have a simple task, "buy a comforter", to process. Yes, I could break it down in to a project, but for now, assume that it's simple enough for one step. Now I try to decide should it be someday, or an action item for the "shopping" context. What I wind up doing is looking at my shopping context, see the huge number of undone tasks that feel more important, and so I stick it in someday. But I also know it will never come out of someday, because I will never empty my shopping context list, so it remains on my mind OUTSIDE of the GTD system as something I have to worry about, or it will never get done. Obviously counterproductive. But with too many things in my context list, I am doing my weekly review every time I try to pick the next task to do. Does this make sense what my dilemma is?

Woah, woah, woah. You may never empty a list, but you will remove things from it. You will be always finishing things and replenishing lists from Someday/Maybe.

Here's my workflow:

Things come out of your head, and into an inbox.
Things come out of your inbox, and into Someday/Maybe.
Things come out of Someday/Maybe, and into your Projects and Next Actions.
Things are completed.

(Obviously, the above isn't ironclad; sometimes a to-do will go straight to an active Project.)

Looks like you're suffering from a common problem: You're over-committed. You literally can't do everything.

Here's the thing: Let's say about half of your projects are going undone. Those half of your projects are going to go undone. You can either try to get them all done--in which case some 50% will not get done--or renegotiate your commitments. To quote one queuing theorist, "Drop off all the stuff that you won't be able to get to. You won't be able to get to it anyway, now you're just being honest about it."

This may seem crazy, but what if you renegotiated half of your projects for a month? Give them to someone else, or extend the deadline, or just temporarily drop them.

Failing that, at least put everything in your system. If you're really working on it, put it on your Projects list. At the very least, it'll show you just how much stuff is really on your plate, and you can decide on what to do from there.

[sdann]

You may also find it useful to have lists. An example would be "books I'd like to read", which I personally don't put in my someday/maybe list. If you are not already doing this, then that will reduce your someday/maybe list. I do a lot of reading and will go to that list only when I want an idea of something else I have always wanted to read. (Please note, that I do have "Must reads" in my someday/maybe list though and they do turn into next actions.)

[dschaffner]

Here's a typical dilemma on prioritizing. I just completed my inbox, and I have a simple task, "buy a comforter", to process. Yes, I could break it down in to a project, but for now, assume that it's simple enough for one step. Now I try to decide should it be someday, or an action item for the "shopping" context. What I wind up doing is looking at my shopping context, see the huge number of undone tasks that feel more important, and so I stick it in someday. But I also know it will never come out of someday, because I will never empty my shopping context list, so it remains on my mind OUTSIDE of the GTD system as something I have to worry about, or it will never get done.

genelong,

If I had "buy a comforter" on my list... hey wait, I do *need* that on my list. Ok, now it's added to my list :)...

Seriously, I keep separate lists depending on where I'm shopping. While my overall "errands" list has about 40 things on it, the list for the store where I will shop for the comforter has only 8 things on it.

now, If I find myself in that store, and I look at the list, I may choose to but the comforter or not. If I look at it too many times and *don't* buy, it chances are that there is some reason (I don't really need it, can't afford it, need to consult my spouse on the style, etc) and that may generate a new next action: save for comforter, research comforter, talk to wife about comforter) on the "buy a comforter" project.

- Don

[genelong]

Thanks again, good tips.

On "doing it in order and not skipping steps", apparently I was remembering the rule for processing the inbox, not for processing next action context lists.

So, what I'm getting from this is that when I'm in a certain context, I pull out the list for that context, scan it for the most important actions, and do those first.

Two questions:

- What prevents unsavory items from never getting done, if the next actions are not done in order?

- How many items do people typically have on a context list? Does anyone have the problem I have of having way too many (like 30-50), and find the list just keeps growing? And how many projects do people typically have total? I know I am over average, but I'm curious if I'm way over or not.

On projects, I understand I have too many, but that is the result of putting everything on my mind down, which I understand is the process (I have a busy mind I guess). That's why I started putting entire projects in the someday category, and trying to pair it down that way. That way, in my weekly review, I only have to look at the project, and not at all the action items within it. Is this what others do?

Thanks for the workflow inbox -> someday -> action list. That helps. I didn't get that before.

And thanks for the tip on dividing someday into "review in a month", "review in a year", etc. That's also very useful. I have a lot of dreams down which I'll probably never get to. Maybe I should have a category "someday when hell freezes over" :)

Gene

[kewms]

- What prevents unsavory items from never getting done, if the next actions are not done in order?

Nothing. GTD will not cure procrastination, it will just make sure you're aware of the things you're procrastinating about.

But then, that's all any other system can do, either.



- How many items do people typically have on a context list? Does anyone have the problem I have of having way too many (like 30-50), and find the list just keeps growing? And how many projects do people typically have total? I know I am over average, but I'm curious if I'm way over or not.


I limit each context to about 15 items. (In a paper system, one side of a junior sheet.) If the list gets longer than that, it's time to defer some stuff.



On projects, I understand I have too many, but that is the result of putting everything on my mind down, which I understand is the process (I have a busy mind I guess). That's why I started putting entire projects in the someday category, and trying to pair it down that way. That way, in my weekly review, I only have to look at the project, and not at all the action items within it. Is this what others do?


Yep.

Katherine

[Brent]

Congrats! I think you've got this figured out. Now for the little clarifications, and the little matter of actually doing it all. ;-)


So, what I'm getting from this is that when I'm in a certain context, I pull out the list for that context, scan it for the most important actions, and do those first.

Yes. You can also continue with one particular Project after you've finished its Next Action, if you think that's the best use of your time.

For example, last week at work, the hallways were quiet, and I received an email informing me that I had to develop about a dozen training slides. That became an active Project with a Next Action. But when I next looked at my list, I evaluated several factors, and decided the best use of my time was to complete all the slides right then. So I did.

Because I knew that nothing else was more important right then.


- What prevents unsavory items from never getting done, if the next actions are not done in order?

The weekly review. You'll notice that certain Projects and Next Actions just aren't getting done.

Also, over time you'll see how many projects you can successfully juggle at once. With a well-oiled system, you'll always be able to add projects, because you'll have a nice, long Someday/Maybe list to inspire you. True masters keep their workload light enough that they can add work when something unexpected arises.

After too many months of struggling with GTD, I eventually found a happy equilibrium between number of projects and a healthy challenge to myself. I found that the challenge lay not in the number of projects, but in the difficulty of each projects. I could accomplish greatness by concentrating on one breathtaking project, if I wanted.


- How many items do people typically have on a context list? Does anyone have the problem I have of having way too many (like 30-50), and find the list just keeps growing? And how many projects do people typically have total? I know I am over average, but I'm curious if I'm way over or not.

30 to 50 seems about average, off the top of my head, from what folks have said here on the forum. I've read of people juggling up to 80 or so.

The list does grow during the first few weeks or months, then reaches a plateau.


On projects, I understand I have too many, but that is the result of putting everything on my mind down, which I understand is the process (I have a busy mind I guess). That's why I started putting entire projects in the someday category, and trying to pair it down that way. That way, in my weekly review, I only have to look at the project, and not at all the action items within it. Is this what others do?

Yes. I think you're completely on-track here. Load down the boat, and see where the leaks spring from.

Some folks like to keep notes about certain Someday/Maybe projects. Some projects demand this, too. That's okay. The problem comes when you're spending significant time defining projects that you've categorized as Someday/Maybe (because then, they're not really Someday/Maybe).

[Cpu_Modern]

Yes. I think you're completely on-track here. Load down the boat, and see where the leaks spring from.

Some folks like to keep notes about certain Someday/Maybe projects. Some projects demand this, too. That's okay. The problem comes when you're spending significant time defining projects that you've categorized as Someday/Maybe (because then, they're not really Someday/Maybe).

I experienced this too. There where (and to a lesser degree still are) many pure research-and-think projects. Questions one put off all the years. But they bug you: hey, what's up? What's the frequency, Keneth?

These projects are okay, one want to clarify, to give things meaning. I think this is a natural, ongoing thought process on 45,000 ft. I cope with it by means of a wthit-list*: the old-fashioned journal. Goal: mind like water.

*wthit== what the heck is this?

[Brent]

I experienced this too. There where (and to a lesser degree still are) many pure research-and-think projects. Questions one put off all the years. But they bug you: hey, what's up? What's the frequency, Keneth?

These projects are okay, one want to clarify, to give things meaning. I think this is a natural, ongoing thought process on 45,000 ft. I cope with it by means of a wthit-list*: the old-fashioned journal. Goal: mind like water.

And you can always create a new, short project to "Clarify and write down three goals to achieve as an Olympic swimmer" or what-have-you. You may not want to act on them now, but if it's bugging you, you can always create a short project to push the larger project along.

[ArcCaster]

Great Thread! I've been wrestling with this stuff for the last couple months -- what I find really off-putting is a next-action list with enough items on it for a week or so.
If I pick each next action 'in the moment', I wind up skipping over and ignoring dozens and dozens of next actions that are not right for 'this moment' every time I finish a 'next action'. By the end of the week, there are items that I have ignored hundreds of times. This is really off-putting.

As a possible solution, I've been reading one of the books recommended in this forum: Mark Forster's "Do It Tomorrow". He recommends a 'closed list' -- create a day-long list each day, and add any incoming action items to tomorrow's list. Theoretically, this is attractive because I have a specific target (complete everything on the list) and at the end of the day, I have either done it or not. This might give me a sense of being 'on track' that I do not get with an infinite next-action list.

So, what I hear you saying is your next action list is impossibly long. What I am saying is that my next action list is long enough to be really irritating. I think we are wrestling with the same problem.

So, let me re-open this discussion, asking your thoughts about such a day-long closed list, and about the appropriateness or inappropriateness of choosing each next-action 'in the moment' instead of before starting your day.

[TesTeq]

- On prioritizing, I thought (I'd have to look it up) that the GTD magic of doing the context lists as opposed to a standard task list was that you don't decide in the moment which one to do - you decide when you make the list, then always do the next one on the list. I've found that useful in that if I keep choosing in the moment, the more disagreeable tasks tend to always be avoided, but if I go through in order, I have to face each one. Did I misunderstand?

All Next Actions should be done as soon as possible. This is the reason why you put them on the @context lists. But taking into account context, time available, energy level and priority at that moment you decide what to do next.


- Here's a typical dilemma on prioritizing. I just completed my inbox, and I have a simple task, "buy a comforter", to process. Yes, I could break it down in to a project, but for now, assume that it's simple enough for one step. Now I try to decide should it be someday, or an action item for the "shopping" context. What I wind up doing is looking at my shopping context, see the huge number of undone tasks that feel more important, and so I stick it in someday. But I also know it will never come out of someday, because I will never empty my shopping context list, so it remains on my mind OUTSIDE of the GTD system as something I have to worry about, or it will never get done.

No. It remains in your GTD system (on your Project and @Errands lists) and returns during every Weekly Review when you have a chance to honestly decide if you really want and have time to do it.

[genelong]

Arccaster, I was thinking along the same lines. I'm thinking of dividing each context list into "do today", and "do this week". Each day within a context, I can go through the "do this week" list, pick out the ones I want to do today, and move them. That still doesn't solve the ones I never pick, but I'll think more about that dilemma.

BTW, the weekly review doesn't help me with the items I'm avoiding. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. The weekly review only moves items from someday to a context list. But since my context list is long, and I am just picking the ones I want to do, many will simply never be picked. I need a mechanism to move them up in priority (i.e., do today) or put them back on the someday list.

I like the idea of a first-in-first-out context list for the items I actually plan to do today. This gets around my habit of always avoiding certain ones. I am forced to face every item I put on that list if I can't skip one or pick what I want. This worked before for me, for the items I intend to do for the day.

I think what annoys me most is the very simple single items that take longer than 2 minutes, but less than 15, and keep getting pushed down the list. That makes me really feel like a failure - I go two weeks and still haven't put my clothes away in the bedroom. For a while, I experimented with an "up to 15-minute items" list which I would always do first, but limit the number I would do each day. I did a top-down on that also, not allowing myself to reorder them or skip any, and that eventually would address every item on the list, so I knew if I put something on that list, it would eventually be addressed. I may go back to that, and anything larger will become a "big rock" and have to be put on my calendar to do at a specific time. If it couldn't be done in 15 minutes, it probably needed to be broken down into smaller steps.

Has anyone tried anything like that?

[Cpu_Modern]

http://www.43folders.com/2005/04/25/choosing-a-daily-gtd-action-plan

[TesTeq]

BTW, the weekly review doesn't help me with the items I'm avoiding. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. The weekly review only moves items from someday to a context list. But since my context list is long, and I am just picking the ones I want to do, many will simply never be picked. I need a mechanism to move them up in priority (i.e., do today) or put them back on the someday list.

Weekly Review is the time to reflect and decide if the Project should be still considered active despite the fact that there was no progress. If you are leaving stalled projects active you are cheating. David Allen suggests to renegotiate the commitments in such case.

[Brent]

I think what annoys me most is the very simple single items that take longer than 2 minutes, but less than 15, and keep getting pushed down the list. That makes me really feel like a failure - I go two weeks and still haven't put my clothes away in the bedroom.

What were you doing instead of putting away your clothes in your bedroom? Was that stuff more important than putting away your clothes?

How important is putting away your clothes in your bedroom?

[genelong]

Well, it's a bit like the guy who doesn't fix the hole in the roof because it's not raining today. When I make priority decisions on the fly, something else will always seem more important than picking up my clothes. But it sure depresses me to go to bed every night and see a reminder of how I'm not in control of my life.

The only thing I have found so far that works for me is to put the item on a top-down list, and do it when I come to it, no matter how trivial it seems in the moment. I'm open to other ways. What's your suggestion?

[kewms]

Household maintenance is different than fixing the roof, though. Fix the roof once and you're (hopefully) done for a while. Laundry and dishes keep accumulating.

I don't have trouble doing this kind of stuff, because it's great for structured procrastination when I don't have the mental energy for anything else. And I work at home so it's always there and therefore more difficult to ignore.

You might try blocking time out on your calendar, though. Maybe a weekend morning when you feel like lounging around the house: it's more productive than watching TV, but not all that much more demanding.

Katherine

[sdann]

[QUOTE=genelong;54542]Well, it's a bit like the guy who doesn't fix the hole in the roof because it's not raining today. When I make priority decisions on the fly, something else will always seem more important than picking up my clothes. But it sure depresses me to go to bed every night and see a reminder of how I'm not in control of my life.
QUOTE]

It looks to me as if putting away your clothes really should be a priority, since it is subtracting from the quality of your life. You may want to look at what is and should be priorities in your life. Many function better in one type of environment, others in another. Most have to take care of the basics before they can move on to other things. Just what you need to do to be your most productive, creative, etc., really is the learning experience. And, as life throws all types of things at you, you will continuously be redefining.

[genelong]

Thanks for your patience in continuing this thread. This is very useful to me.

Miscellaneous household things like this are a major problem. It is not just clothes, it's putting away things on my desk, cleaning the kitchen, little repair things, laundry, etc., etc., that keep slipping through the cracks.

How do others handle this? My schedule is pretty irregular, otherwise I could schedule the same time each week to organize the house. When I make it a bunch of tasks in my house context list, along with dozens of other tasks, like making phone calls, writing, looking up something on the internet, etc., there is always something that seems more important than straightening my desk or doing a load of laundry (until I run out of underwear!). I've currently got 35 tasks on my home context list, and most of them have been there for a couple of weeks. I can list a dozen items that seem more important in the moment than picking up my clothes. Surely researching a medical issue to be ready for a medical appointment tomorrow rates higher. But then, something always rates higher than laundry.

And yes, a neat house is critical to my peace of mind, and a feeling of being in control of my life. But I could spend all day doing those kinds of items and not get other things done.

A related question: do you all place similar tasks, like doing laundry, doing dishes, straightening the living room, under one project, and only have one next action item out of the list? Or do people make each one a separate task, and place some on the context list and some in someday? It's not really a project, since it is never ending, and things get added regularly and (hopefully) taken off regularly, and there is never a point where it is actually completed. But treating it like a project might cut down the number of action items I have on my next action/home context list. I keep thinking that if my context list is short enough to empty in one day, then items can't slip through the cracks.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

[Julia]

Hi there, I know how you're feeling... I tended to have household things that are really, really not that hard to take care of to get ridiculously overwhelming before I dealt with them. I don't know why... I just felt like there's always something else more important and I'd get to whatever it is later.

The best thing that I have found, for me, is to think about those things as routines... even making a checklist for the ones that I get the most hung up on. So every day after I feed the pets, I also do xy and z or whatever. I've decided that a certain amount of "maintenance" effort has to be a priority over all but the most urgent of other actions or projects... just to keep myself on track. Just being able to get a grip on the "basics" also makes me feel better and more positive about tackling other things.

So, I don't put those things on my next action list or have them as a project. But I do have a checklist that I use, sometimes more, sometimes less... depending on how much I feel I need it.

Hope this helps... good luck!

[Cpu_Modern]

Miscellaneous household things like this are a major problem. It is not just clothes, it's putting away things on my desk, cleaning the kitchen, little repair things, laundry, etc., etc., that keep slipping through the cracks.

During my college years I had several (male) housemates with this problem. It is clearly a matter of habbits.

First rule: Don't put things somewhere so you can later put them at the right place. Put things away instantly. (This is a habbit you have to train until it sticks. (Yeah, screaming at my housemates didn't help always :-))

Actually the first rule: Everything has it's place. You can't put things away if you are not clear about where they belong.

[Cpu_Modern]

I find this process, where GTD mirrors to us our issues with what we call life one of the highbits of GTD. When actions don't get done it is important to investigate why. What is the best way to do them?

I think this question is not so much a question of GTD-system technicalities, but more a lifestyle decision. Put the lists aside for a moment. What would be the best way to get your household chores done? Given your values (That means here: what do you consider 'style? What would the cool dude do?), how would you do it? Once you know this (or have a preliminary version) you can ask, how do I incorporate this into my GTD-system?

[TesTeq]

First rule: Don't put things somewhere so you can later put them at the right place. Put things away instantly.
Actually the first rule: Everything has it's place. You can't put things away if you are not clear about where they belong.

I second this. It's the most important advice.

[Borisoff]

I had problems with priorities as well. Set up a timemap. For example, do your laundry weekly on Saturday from 9 to 11 am. You can set as many maps as you want. I like to keep them as little as I can i.e. work (9-19), children (19-21), sports (19-21 two days a week) etc.

The other helpful question in the moment is "What has the most of my attention now and what would give me the greatest pain relefe?". Work that out and feel free!

[Jay Levitt]

Gene,

I'm struggling with the exact same thing. After a decade of being an office workaholic, I took time off to go to school, and then I took time off from that to be a consultant. So I've got all the time off I want, and that's dangerous. I haven't done laundry in weeks.

I'm a lot better this week than last week. A few things I learned:

* Don't do what I'm doing now (stop your daily tasks to read and respond to forums). Instead, capture the idea of doing so in your UCT, process it normally, and do it when it's appropriately important enough.

* I'm a gadget freak, so I am playing with gadgets like multiple virtual desktops and multiple browsers (one for work, one for play), Yahoo Widgets (for clock, timer, etc), and the Interruptron (http://www.workingcogs.com/interruptron/) nag-a-bot to keep me on track. Of course, that's a rabbit trail in itself, especially since I'm a programmer, and I "know" I could write better replacements for all these if only I had the time, so I'm trying to limit myself to maybe an hour a day of "process improvement".

* In theory, you should have only one list. In reality, I found that none of the good task-list tools helped me with daily habits. As I said to someone last week, "I need a habit-forming pill, and not in the usual sense." http://www.joesgoals.com looks nice; personally, my daily goals match up better with Sciral Consistency (http://sciral.com/consistency/), even though it's somewhat outdated and limited.

* I've never seen a productivity guru that didn't start out by saying "I was at rock bottom, I had no job, I had no girlfriend." I think there's a reason. This week, I have had two goals every day: (1) Get through all my tasks in Consistency, and (2) do something else too, if possible. That's right: my main goal each day is to accomplish my own habit training. That's a lot easier if you don't have a real life.

The first few days, thanks to my lovely ADD, it took me all day just to get through my list of stuff I wanted to do every day. (I'm talking simple things: shower, eat, exercise, vitamins, have some fruit, feed the cat.) But it's like anything you practice: You'll start doing it faster and more automatically. It's 10:25am and I'm now where I was yesterday at 6pm.

If you're a musician, or an actor, you know that the first time you play a piece or run through a scene, it'll take you forever to get through it; eventually you can do it at triple-speed while juggling. (If you're not, I'm sure there are other metaphors: video games, sports, reading a book vs. re-reading, anything.) Try doing that with your life for a while.

[Mindi]

But I could spend all day doing those kinds of items and not get other things done.


I agree with what others have said about making routines for things like laundry and dishes, and for making good habits about putting clothes away in the first place. My suggestion for tackling organizing/ cleaning tasks is to set a timer. Everyday, at some point, I set a timer for 5 minutes and pick up my house. Sometimes it means only putting away half of the pile of clothes in my bedroom, sometimes I go around the whole house and pick things up, sometimes I spend all five minutes cleaning a desk drawer in my office. But I pick something and work on it for 5 minutes, and then I STOP. The stopping is critical, otherwise I get overwhelmed and depressed about all the other things that are not neat and clean around my house. With just those five minutes, I have moved the project forward and I am rewarded with a sense of relaxed control, even though I have oodles of home projects staring me in the face. With my situation (three bedroom house, husband, no kids) I am able to maintain a pretty pristine home environment with just those five minutes a day and I don't feel like I am spending all of my free time doing it.

;)Mindi

[sdann]

The most mundane parts of life are those we have to do continuously. Unless I had someone continuously pick up after me, and there are a very few in the world that do, I have to take care of it myself. Whether I want to do it right away, or in chunks of time daily, or in large time slots weekly, is something I grapple with continuously. But I do know that if I tend to something regularly, it is much easier to handle. For example, cleaning your stovetop daily or even once a week is much easier than having to clean off the layers and layers (and sometimes more layers) of accumulating grease. I have forced myself to not apply my perfectionist tendencies to these areas, or else they'd never get done. One of my best tricks is to perform a "quick pick-up", where I run through my home putting stuff away, just like a waitress would pick up and put away things as quickly as possible. It's not dusting, nor is it vacuuming, or other important tasks, but immediately I see a difference.

[Brent]

And yes, a neat house is critical to my peace of mind, and a feeling of being in control of my life. But I could spend all day doing those kinds of items and not get other things done.

No offense, but you're wrong. :-)

You're right in the sense that, right now, you could spend all day cleaning up and it wouldn't be done that night. But once your house is clean and your laundry is done, upkeep won't take all day.

Okay, a few random items that you may need to take care of:


Laundry
Straightening up (putting away accumulated stuff)
Cleaning (as in dusting and vacuuming)


If your schedule's irregular, you have to tie chores to a daily event, not a time.

So, here's the challenge: When you get home tomorrow night, do a load of laundry. First thing. Then straighten up for 15 minutes. THAT'S IT. How long will it really take you to stick a load of laundry in the washing machine? Ten minutes? So, this whole thing will take less than half an hour. Then you can eat dinner and enjoy your evening.

Next night, do another load of laundry if need be, and clean for 15 minutes. That's it. Stop after 15 minutes.

You will have to spend 30 minutes each night for probably a month or so to clean everything. Then you should only need 15 minutes or so each day.

[MarinaMartin]

I also struggled with how to fit in routine tasks, and then I created a solution that works perfectly for me.

I made a chart with each household chore running down the left and the date of the month (1-31) running across the top.

I then put a circle in the square for each day I should do that action. This was a little arbitrary at first, and then I moved the circles around to more or less frequent as needed.

I put the list in a photo frame, glued magnets on the back, and put it on the fridge with a dry-erase pen.

Each day, I look up the date of the month and see what little circles I have to do that day. If I get behind, I just do all the unmarked circles -- or I ignore them, if it's a particularly hectic time.

You can see a photo of my chart by clicking here (http://flickr.com/photos/sufficientthrust/2126069004/in/set-72157603509085890/).

(Click "All Sizes" above the photo to zoom in.)

Marina

[unstuffed]

This is one of those grey areas in GTD. Household maintenance isn't a project that you can begin and work through and complete: you have to keep doing it. And that messes with our sense that we should be progressing through our lists.

Others have already provided lots of great suggestions here, so I'll just repeat what they've said.

Do stuff daily, for 15 minutes, at the same time each day. I find mornings or evenings work best.
Do one room, or one task, each day. Either clean the bedroom completely or do one cleaning job through the house.
The routine aspect of this means that you do it without even thinking about it. After a while, you find you're starting to do things (like tidying up) as you go along, just like magic.
Get a timer and work to the clock: if it doesn't get done today, it will get done tomorrow, and having a fixed time frame makes it less onerous.


You might look at the Flylady (http://flylady.com/)'s website for more on this.

Also, for prioritising and procrastination issues, it might help to include dates in your NA lists. That is, note down the date when the NA went onto the list, so that you can clearly see which ones are getting stale.

When things do get stale, one of the reasons might be that the NA is not well-defined. Things like "buy comforter" would fall into this category, because an NA should be something that you can do without using your brain: there are no decisions to be made, no issues to consider, you just pick up the comforter and hand over the cash. If you haven't decided which one you want, or how much you want to pay, or what features you want, then that Next Action will lie about on your NA list and you'll keep putting it off.

Hope that helps a bit.

[shivas]

Well, it's a bit like the guy who doesn't fix the hole in the roof because it's not raining today. When I make priority decisions on the fly, something else will always seem more important than picking up my clothes. But it sure depresses me to go to bed every night and see a reminder of how I'm not in control of my life.

The only thing I have found so far that works for me is to put the item on a top-down list, and do it when I come to it, no matter how trivial it seems in the moment. I'm open to other ways. What's your suggestion?

I like to think of tasks in 2 buckets - "routines" and one-off's. Many of the household tasks can be broken down into routines. For example, the laundry "project" (from doing the laundry to fold & put away) can be done as a routine. In my experience, these type of tasks although trivial have a habit of becoming uncontrollable if you don't tend to them on a regular basis. So I have made them into routines and assign these to specific days or weeks. So, on that day that particular task becomes high priority to get completed. I find these tasks to fall down in my perceived priority list and so making them a routine and forcing myself to tend to them on a specific day has helped me a lot. Another trick I have used is realizing that the laundry project is not complete unless the laundry is folded and put away. Doing the laundry was never an issue with me -- the procrastination pops up when I had to fold & put away ;)

As always, YMMV.

-- ss

[Jay Levitt]

Another trick I have used is realizing that the laundry project is not complete unless the laundry is folded and put away. Doing the laundry was never an issue with me -- the procrastination pops up when I had to fold & put away

I used to solve that problem by throwing the clothes back in the washer again. Then it was back at @Waiting For...

[ladyinblack1964]

Here's where I've been running into problems:

I know a Projects list is just supposed to have the name of the project on it, but I am finding it easier to create a page in my notebook for each project, then list steps needed to accomplish it, with dates if needed, and little checkboxes. It just seems easier to keep the actions with their projects rather than to have a separate page of Next Actions and a separate page of Projects. That way, I know what stage each project is at.

This seems to be the way Omnifocus works.

Any opinions?

[jknecht]

Here's where I've been running into problems:

I know a Projects list is just supposed to have the name of the project on it, but I am finding it easier to create a page in my notebook for each project, then list steps needed to accomplish it, with dates if needed, and little checkboxes. It just seems easier to keep the actions with their projects rather than to have a separate page of Next Actions and a separate page of Projects. That way, I know what stage each project is at.

This seems to be the way Omnifocus works.

Any opinions?

The primary issue I can see with this approach is that it becomes difficult to have a consolidated view of all the things you could be doing within a given context.

For example, if you have several home improvement/maintenance projects (eg. change burned out light bulb in kitchen, change furnace filter, de-scale shower head, replace door knob on bedroom door, rake leaves) and the next action for each one of those projects is to buy something at the hardware store, how would you know what you need to buy the next time you are in the hardware store?

If each next action is only written on the page of the project it belongs to, you'd have to flip through your notebook and look at each project to see if there is anything you need to buy. Conversely, if you had each of those next actions on a separate '@Hardware Store' list, you would have the complete list of everything you need to buy in one easy-to-review location.

[ladyinblack1964]

Yes, I see your point. I might be better off keeping those project lists with all the actions on them, and then copying the actions to my "@Home" and "@Work" pages. That way I have the bigger picture and the smaller picture.

I'm going to have to rethink this. Right now I'm working in NoteBook and Omnifocus and trying to determine which I want to use. both have features that work very well with GTD--I just want something with a short learning curve. Since I usually use a Franklin planner, I thought Notebook would work best.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[sdann]

First off, I don't use Omnifocus. In Thinking Rock, I create projects and then assign a task by context as the next action for each project. The program lists these next actions by context. If I finish one next action for a project, the project then is highlighted in red, indicating that I need to assign a new next action, which I then do. The NAs are visible in 2 places - in the context list and under the respective projects. Is that perhaps how Omnifocus does it?

[ladyinblack1964]

Yes, it is rather like that--you can check off what you've done.

I'm also taking a look at TR--this is the first I've heard of it and it sounds intriguing. And it's free 1:-D

[kabell]

I think what annoys me most is the very simple single items that take longer than 2 minutes, but less than 15, and keep getting pushed down the list. That makes me really feel like a failure - I go two weeks and still haven't put my clothes away in the bedroom.

Yes! And here's my solution that really works well for me.

David Allen says in GTD, that you can have any amount of "inboxes", even though he recommends keeping the numbers down. I daily go through theese inboxes:

Snail-mail
E-mail
Voice mail
My GTD software inbox
My Hipster-PDA

So that's 5 already. Here's the thing about daily routines - they are NOT next actions. They are inboxes!

Yes, your kitchen sink is an inbox, and you should empty it as often as possible.

Look at your kitchen, at each individual item - does it take more than 2 minutes to complete? (e.g. washing a single glass). If the answear is no - do it now.

Look ar your room and scan for clothe - treat each item of clothe as an inbox object: Does it take longer than 2 minutes to proces? If not, do it NOW.

In GTD the single most important task is to have all your inboxes empty, and all your lists complete. Realizing that doing the dishes, cleaning the room, going out with the garbage etc. is just as much an "inbox" as your e-mail inbox makes it a lot easier for me.

"Stuff" piling up in my room distracts me just as much as not having all my meetings next week lined up in my calender. Every single item of close, of unwashed dishes, of dirty laundy, empty refrigerator etc. should be taken care of before you get to any of those important projects that are on your action lists. If not, it will clutter your mind, also subconsciously while you're at work.

--

It would be interesting to further discuss "physical" things as "emptying" inboxes. Looking through my room, and I see it needs cleening (seeing that = emptying my inbox), so I ask myself immediately: Does it take longer than 2 minutes? Here it's a yes, so it becomes a next-action or goes into my calendar.

But everytime I feel hungry, and notice that, I ask myself (sub-consciously): Does it take more than two minutes? If not, I do it right away. But if I'm at the university in the middle of class, and ask myself "I'm hungry - does it take longer than 2 minutes to get food?" the answear is yes, and it becomes a high-priority next-action.

Even going to the toilet is like "emptying the inbox" - and we usually decide to do it right away. But still, under some circumstances it's to much hazzle to do it right now (while driving, at a job interview etc.), and now it just becomes a very high-priority next-action.

Even brushing one's teeths each evening is an act of "emptying an inbox" - your mouth! (tooth brushing is just a very physical way of doing it and the next action - flushing - is obvious, but it wasn't when you started out).

So, look at thoose daily routines where you're behind, and see if you can identify any of them as an inbox. If so, realize that when you go through the traditional GTD-inboxes, this one also needs to be taken care of now, and it's more important that start working on your project that has a deadline in two days - at least if your ultimate goal is "mind like water".

Thoughts on this?

[Brent]

kabell wrote, "In GTD the single most important task is to have all your inboxes empty, and all your lists complete."

I disagree. I don't think GTD has one single most important task. What about GTD freeing you to think strategically about your work? Isn't that more important?

[sdann]

Yes, your kitchen sink is an inbox, and you should empty it as often as possible.

Including the kitchen sink...

Even your outbox, if you have one, is an inbox for filing. When I had asked on this forum if it was alright to use an outbox, so that I don't have to get up after every piece was processed, I was told by some that the outbox is really only an inbox. Just that symbolic suggestion had a great impact on me.

I like the idea of treating all these household areas as inboxes. If your bedroom is covered in your clothes, that looks like one big inbox. Time to process. That may also be a good reason to not just drop things where they are, but to put as much away as possible. Now I know this is not possible all the time - just look at my bedroom when I'm getting ready for a big event - but mentally this must help.

Another example is the snail mail. You pull it from your mailbox (inbox) and place it in your home in a stack, preferably in your household inbox. But, if you instead place the stack of mail on your foyer table, wouldn't that now be an inbox?

[kabell]

kabell wrote, "In GTD the single most important task is to have all your inboxes empty, and all your lists complete."

I disagree. I don't think GTD has one single most important task. What about GTD freeing you to think strategically about your work? Isn't that more important?

I guess you're right - it's language barriers here. What I meant is, that the single most important goal (this is valid, at least for me) is to have every commitment down on paper, so they aren't messing with your head. This will of course lead to better focus and thereby better productivity, but to achieve this, everything needs to be in a trusted system.

As David said somewhere (paraphrased): Having 95% of all your commitments down on paper, compared to 100%, is small in numbers, but it's a whole different world in terms of how you feel.

[Brent]

What I meant is, that the single most important goal (this is valid, at least for me) is to have every commitment down on paper, so they aren't messing with your head.

And even there, I disagree. :-) I think the weekly review is even more important, as lots of people have tried getting everything out of their head, and within a few weeks are faced with an out-of-date, out-of-control monster of a system.

I think a consistent weekly review can fix an incomplete, broken system. But a complete, broken system won't work without regular reviews.

I suspect we're in violent agreement. ;-)

Anyway, back to inboxes. Yes, a foundational productivity pillar is emptying your inboxes frequently. It's certainly a learned skill; folks aren't born knowing this stuff.