"Actions" versus "Next Actions"

[validatelife]

Very simply, I don't understand the difference. I'm versed in GTD jargon, but don't understand Action vs. Next Action. There's a seperate option for it on all GTDGmail labels. Is "Next Actions" for project actions and "Actions" for just general project-unrelated actions. So

Action
Call Sara for Dinner.

Project -- Decide Budget
Next Action -- Call Tim from Accounting

So Calling sara, is unrelated to a project so it's just an Action?
And Calling tim is project-related (to the project "Decide budget"), so it's a "next action"?

Please help clarify this ambiguity. Thanks

[Eponymous]

For my own purposes, I have always made the distinction this way:

A Next Action is any task that can be done at this moment in time, while an Action is any other task in the system that cannot yet be done.

So in my system, using your example, "Call Sara" and "Call Tim from Accounting" would both be Next Actions, because they can be done now if I choose to do them.

But whatever tasks come after "Call Tim from Accounting" in the project "Decide Budget" would be Actions, because they're not next, they can't be done yet.

[kewms]

The Next Action is the very next immediately doable thing to move a project (or non-project goal) forward. So both of your examples are Next Actions.

Ordinary (not Next) actions are things that you need to do at some point but can't at the moment. Often the reason is a dependency: you have to do the Next Action first.

Katherine

[tominperu]

In my own head 'next action' relates to the next action in a project. There may be many actions for projects but only one next action.

I also have a list of actions, many of which are next actions of projects, but others are single actions not related to projects e.g. 'ring Alan to wish him happy birthday'

[validatelife]

Hey,
Thanks everyone. This clarifies it! Thanks. So to reiterate and kind of reconstruct the definition, EVERY action that gets accomplished is a next action right before it's accomplished. In other words, every "accomplished" action once existed as an action and a next action and a next action is just the "most timely and relevant, based on the current context" action of an action sequence. Thanks that's helpful. So every next action is an action, but every action is not necessarily a next action.

Timperu, I think you and I shared a similar definition in relation to projects. I was confused on with or not you have non-projected-related next actions. In other words, do you make "next actions" exclusive to projects only?

This is helpful because I've used "next actions" for a LONG time when I just create a number list of actions to accomplish a project (like a website:
1. Design Site
2. Figure out best coding and web design program.
3. Code it.
4. Upload it.
5. Debug it.
6. Double check all the links.
7. Reference a domain name to it.


And then if I had two other projects, I would only have (likely) 3 next actions. Design site and the first next action from the other projects. That's cool. I like the "next action" concept. I've been using "next actions" for a long time but materializing it into that standard concept is helpful because you (if you're, for example juggle three projects) don't see this amorphorous web of "project todos and actions", but instead see 3 simple next actions. So the next actions gives you the control of "whittling down" all the actions to accomplish a project without being overwhelmed of all the necessary actions for all projects.

Again, to plug this into my own mental schemata, the next action concept is like a FIFO (or LIFO depending on how you visualize it) stack in computer science. All you "see" is that next action (firt most action you put in, or the first step in the project sequence), even though one stack (or project) could have dozens and dozens of actions. All you see is the next action.

For some reason, the analogy of "Next action and a LIFO/FIFO project action stack" reminds me of some statistic of visualizing ALL the food you'll have to eat in a lifetime. This amount is roughly 60,000 pounds, which is equivalent to about 6 elephants or 17,455 80gb ipods (in weight). Envisioning all that food is enough to make you sick! :D haha! So we, as humans, just only think of a our "Next Action Grocery Shop" or maybe even with less distant perspective our "Next Action Meal" or "Next Action Morsel Bite". The point is that we NEVER envision ALL the mini "Eat Action Steps" for all the food we'll have to eat. For survival, nutrition, we automatically do the "Next Action" process and blind ourselves to subsequent (can't yet do) actions. We definitely do not do that with projects. We (I've done a ton of this) see "all the action steps" of multiple projects simultaneously, and it makes us feel about as sick as having to envision eating 6 elephants in a lifetime! haha:mrgreen: So thanks for clarifying the Next Action concept. By integrating that into my GTD system, I'll be sure to only take on the next bite-sized action steps of projects instead of elephant-sized overloads of "can't-yet-be-accomplished" actions.

Thanks!

[validatelife]

Sorry about continually writing on this, but I just think fully integrating the "next action" concept into my organizational system will really simplify my life and increase productivity.

So first off, there's no "rule" that says next actions are only associated with projects, it's just that the nature of projects involves, typically, a series of actions that must be accomplished in a chronological order (a subsequent action relies on the preceding action to be accomplished). So it's just that chronological sequence of actions (commonly found in projects) that creates the distinction between "action" and "Next action". Anything that has a sequential (where order is significant) series of steps will have one Next action and 0+ actions after that.

Okay, so here's some actions. I'm trying to practice putting these into actions, next actions, or projects.


Buy toothpaste
Buy groceries
Publish Book
Research online publishers



Buy toothpaste
okay this seems like just a general "action". it's not "next action" because it's not connected to a project. Or is by default "Next Action" because it can just be done? Or is this an action in the project "Buy ToothPaste" with
Next Action -- Get Keys and Go to Store.
Action -- Locate toothpate
Action -- Purchase toothpaste.

David Allan emphasized knowing the exact detail of all the necessary action steps, but that seems like "over-detail". maybe not though because all those action steps are necessary and they all must occur (and occur in that order) for the "Buy ToothPaste" project to be completed. So a lot of things really are projects. Interesting.

Buy groceries
About the same as buy toothpaste. This is a project with more "locate item" and "purchase items" action steps.
Publish Book
This is definitely a project. So would I put this in "ProjectHome"? To put that stake in the ground? And then build a seperate project file for it?
Research online publishers
This would be part of the project "Publish Book" but it can occur before or after the action step of "Polish final edits". So I guess that project could have two next action steps, or I could create a mini project within the meta-project of "publish book" of "Finish edits".
Polish final edits of book.


so just to finally reiterate the clarification. An ACTION is something that must be done to complete a project, an action is a placeholder for a not-yet-executable step necessary to complete to accomplish a project. An ACTION is one sequence step (somewhere in the sequence of of a necessary steps to complete a project). A NEXT ACTION is an ACTION step that can be immediately acted upon (there's no "to dos" before it). So the "action" folder is an amorphorous kind of "floating" collection of action steps from various projects that all require some action to be taken before you can take any of those actions. Then, the next action folder is collection of top of the stack actions from various projects that all can be acted upon (any "prerequisite steps" necessary before any next action have already been done, so they're next up in the queue of "do-able at the present moment" things. That's a VERY cool and necessary distinction. I'm glad I sorted that out. I frequently had "undoable at the present moment" actions -- actions that were buried in the queue of a project's necessary actions -- on a "todo" list but putting actions on your on-the-go todo list, just clogs your process and system because those things aren't yet, doable! So an on the go to-do list should ONLY contain next actions. That way, you aren't hovering around eye-jumping over things on such a list that can't yet be accomplished, and instead have at your repertoire all the tasks that can be done at that next present moment. So the key characteristic here is you can NEVER do an "action". The only thing you can do to an "action" is move it to "next actions" when it does become actionable. So ALL the work of doing it, acocmplishing things comes from the NExt Actions folder. That's such an awesome symmetry. Because EVERYTHING (receipts, project ideas, phone calls, everything) starts in the inbox, and ends up in Next Actions or Reference, eventually (the maybe somedays evnetually will likely, given enough time, move to projects then actions and next actions). that's so cool.
So next actions will only contain actions that can be immediately executed (if in the right context) that take 2+ minutes to do (if a next action takes <2minutes it will just get done right then and there)

Like input=inbox output=next actions and that + everything in between everything in between is your full gtd productivity system for doing everything in your life! sweet.

Man this is such an AWESOME system because it's like computer programming, but INSTANTLY applied to life! I loved the procedural methodology and logic of comp. sci, but the program were useless, I'd spend hours coding some little program that didn't anything meaningful. With GTD you can spend hours "coding" your projects and action steps and next actions and organizing system (even with behaviors, I've been working on), that meaningfully activates the "clarity, peace of mind, productivity, and increased concentration" program in your life!
Okay, that's helpful. Thanks.

[validatelife]

Sorry for the long responses, guys. When some people learn and apply and integrate information they need to "see it", others need to "hear it", some need to "do it". I'm pretty sure I "learn" best by "doing it" and "teaching it".

[mcogilvie]

Um, with apologies to all, I think you may be getting a mistaken impression of what vanilla GTD practice is. DA's recommendation is to think ahead on a project as little as you can get away with. There are at least two reasons: project requirements morph, and people tend to get trodden down by long lists. Of course, big projects require big plans, so the key phrase is "as little as you can get away with." Every project is different, and how you handle the bigger ones is as much a reflection of you as it is of the nature of your work.

"Buy groceries" is just a next action on my @out list. "Toothpaste" is an item on the grocery list, which is just a special-purpose checklist. Just that simple. I would not make "Publish Book" a project, but would probably have things like "Develop book proposal" and "Look for agent" as projects. More concrete, with more realistic time horizons. I could put "publish book" as some higher level objective, but I probably wouldn't. I tend instead to have one project flow into another.

If you want to have "Actions" and "Next Actions" for your bigger projects, go ahead, but be prepared to acknowledge that it may not always work for you. I think you may find that trying to fit all your projects into a single framework is difficult. But YMMV.

[unstuffed]

Anything that has a sequential (where order is significant) series of steps will have one Next action and 0+ actions after that.

There's no need to list Actions in your projects, unless you think there's something you'll forget: the regular (daily or weekly) reviews allow you to work out the next action for a project when you need to.




Buy toothpaste
okay this seems like just a general "action". it's not "next action" because it's not connected to a project. Or is by default "Next Action" because it can just be done? Or is this an action in the project "Buy ToothPaste" with
Next Action -- Get Keys and Go to Store.
Action -- Locate toothpate
Action -- Purchase toothpaste.

I'd say that you'd put toothpaste on your shopping list and wait until you're at the store, at which time you can buy a bunch of things. One of the key strengths of GTD is that you can batch similar tasks together, so instead of going to the store for each single item, you list them together and buy them all at once. This is the essence of the context lists.


David Allan emphasized knowing the exact detail of all the necessary action steps, but that seems like "over-detail".

I think it's quite the reverse: The David points out that you don't need to know anything but the Next Action, just that one single thing to move the project forward.


Publish Book
This is definitely a project. So would I put this in "ProjectHome"? To put that stake in the ground? And then build a seperate project file for it?

What's ProjectHome? Note that you don't need to group your projects in any way - a simple list is enough to remind you of all the things you've got going at one time.



Polish final edits of book.


I'd have to say that "polish final edits of book" is not an action step. It's certainly not defined enough to be a Next Action. The clues are that there's no concrete tasks to perform: rather, there's an unstated goal ("have a final edit that's complete to my satisfaction"). So I'd suggest things like "read through once for spelling/grammar errors", "check chapter one against precis to ensure that I've covered the points listed", and of course "put aside for at least a month before reading through again" (I've done a fair amount of editing in my time).



So the "action" folder is an amorphorous kind of "floating" collection of action steps from various projects that all require some action to be taken before you can take any of those actions. Then, the next action folder is collection of top of the stack actions from various projects that all can be acted upon (any "prerequisite steps" necessary before any next action have already been done, so they're next up in the queue of "do-able at the present moment" things.

I don't recall an Action folder. What I'd say is that you've got a folder for each project, which might contain snippets like the basic aim of the project and any notes/reminders/accompanying data/whatever that goes with the project. Then you've got your Next Action list or lists: you might have just one list, if you do most/all of your work in one place, or you might have one for each of several different contexts.

These Next Action lists (often known as context lists) hold all the NAs for all the projects, sorted neatly by context. So you might have an @Phone list, which holds all the calls you have to make, or an @Team list, if there are some tasks you can only do when your team is together (I've worked in a software dev team and found this useful).

The act of popping the NA from the top of the stack takes place when you review (usually the mini daily review). Note that you can do an NA and then continue to work on the project for a while: there's nothing that says you have to check your project material for a Next Action after each one. But once you've finished working on that project, you'll need to generate the next NA (pop the next item off the stack), which happens at review time.



With GTD you can spend hours "coding" your projects and action steps and next actions and organizing system (even with behaviors, I've been working on), that meaningfully activates the "clarity, peace of mind, productivity, and increased concentration" program in your life!
Okay, that's helpful. Thanks.

I think the best comp. sci. analogy would be that GTD is Extreme Programming for your life. :D

[validatelife]

Um, with apologies to all, I think you may be getting a mistaken impression of what vanilla GTD practice is. DA's recommendation is to think ahead on a project as little as you can get away with. There are at least two reasons: project requirements morph, and people tend to get trodden down by long lists. Of course, big projects require big plans, so the key phrase is "as little as you can get away with." Every project is different, and how you handle the bigger ones is as much a reflection of you as it is of the nature of your work.

"Buy groceries" is just a next action on my @out list. "Toothpaste" is an item on the grocery list, which is just a special-purpose checklist. Just that simple. I would not make "Publish Book" a project, but would probably have things like "Develop book proposal" and "Look for agent" as projects. More concrete, with more realistic time horizons. I could put "publish book" as some higher level objective, but I probably wouldn't. I tend instead to have one project flow into another.

If you want to have "Actions" and "Next Actions" for your bigger projects, go ahead, but be prepared to acknowledge that it may not always work for you. I think you may find that trying to fit all your projects into a single framework is difficult. But YMMV.

mcogilvie, No hard feelings at all. I'm incredibly grateful that you took the time to clarify that for me. You clarified that I should just have a next actions list and not an actions list (because you'll think of the other actions as they become next actions, right?). My question is why does GTDInbox have Next actions and Actions subfolders under projects? Maybe I'll work out some method of keeping the non-doable actions directly tethered to the project.

Also, you're right about the Groceries and "Projects vs Actions" concept, I think it's ultimately choice how detailed you want to go. Your view of "Action=Buy Groceries, with Toothpaste one of those items on the list" has a much bigger picture POV and, honestly, makes a lot more sense! I think technically you COULD make "Buy Toothpaste" a project with all those above-mentioned action steps, but LOL it seems a lot much more clear of a focus to put than under @Outside. I have an Errands list which would be syonymous to @Outside.

Also I really appreciate your advice on the projects. if the goal is to "publish a book", then "find agent" and "develop book proposal" are great project (steps) towards that meta-project-goal. And those suggestions make more sense because they kind of do create more "flowing" actions. It's easy to, as david allen would say, "go numb" to the project of "publish book", but proposal and agent-finding, are more tangible.

So instead of, "get an acting job" (which is a nearly un-actionable project), one should do "research acting classes", "find an acting agent.

In short, your insight helped me realize that my projects should be more flowing (but I still like the idea of a meta-project as "Publish Book" and then secondary projects under that) and that my action errands had a scope that was a little too myopic. haha. Thanks for the tips!

[validatelife]

Wait, just for the purposes of learning about others' systems. You have a grocery list seperately or one that's under @Outside?
Do you have

@Outside
1. Get Groceries
2. Get Office Supplies
3. Look at phones
And then a seperate grocery list and office supplies list

OR

@ Outside
1. Get Groceries --- (list of groceries)
2. Get Office Supplies (labels, folders, etc)
3. Look at phones.

Also, do you have paper lists or electronic lists?

I've just been devouring GTD for the past month or so and am trying to integrate it effectively into my lif eand have already experiented wtih google notebooks, plain paper lists, "My Mind" program, word processing lists, and plain folders with text files in them. Trying to settle on the most effective implementation for GTD with "phone syncing" and mobility being strong considerations.

[kewms]

I keep separate lists for each major destination: groceries, office supplies, pet stuff, etc. Then my @Errands list simply has "buy groceries" or whatever.

All of this is on paper. That's especially advantageous for shared lists. Anyone who notices that we're out of an item can write it on the list on the kitchen counter. Then whoever does the shopping can just grab the list on the way out the door.

Katherine

[jknecht]

I just keep one uber to-buy list (in a text file that I keep on my pocket pc), separated by major category (groceries, hardware, electronics, cd's & dvd's, books, etc.).

I used to keep separate lists for each store, but you know what? Grocery stores sell lightbulbs, and so do hardware stores, and so do department stores; so which list am I supposed to put "lightbulbs" on?

Anyway, the one big list solved that. I more or less just "collect" into that list. Then when I know that I am almost out of something important, or if I need to buy something specific for one of my projects, then I put an explicit destination on my @Errands list.

[validatelife]

I just keep one uber to-buy list (in a text file that I keep on my pocket pc), separated by major category (groceries, hardware, electronics, cd's & dvd's, books, etc.).

I used to keep separate lists for each store, but you know what? Grocery stores sell lightbulbs, and so do hardware stores, and so do department stores; so which list am I supposed to put "lightbulbs" on?

Anyway, the one big list solved that. I more or less just "collect" into that list. Then when I know that I am almost out of something important, or if I need to buy something specific for one of my projects, then I put an explicit destination on my @Errands list.

"uber to-buy list" haha!! Nice terminology jkecht. I love it. I think that hsould be the name of a a processing category. you have your @Phone, @Outside, @Computer, and the "Uber To-Buy" list categories. hysterical. nice.

I have, currently, about 2 seperate errands lists, and 2 seperate Materials (to buy) lists. I MUST simplify. The reason for havign duplicates is one is on an informal word document (after doing some "emptying your ram" 20 minute sessions) and then I migrated some of those over to a freeware program called "My Mind" and just made a "node" labeled "Errands" for @outside events.

I also come from a LOT of computer programming background. To program a computer you have to tell it EVERY small, inconceivably minute detail. Like to create a program that opens a window and types somethign, you have to "call upon" all these pre-existing eventListeners (to "hear" for the user's click), specify how the window will look, where it will open up, the dimensions it will have, and then call upon a special "text-typing" program to actually write the text. In programming, something as simple as writing a mini "open window and write something" program can get very complex with all the intermediate action steps. Writing a program with something as "macroscale" as "buy groceries' would be laughably impossible (atleast untill AI is advanced much more). you'd have to write sub-programs for "locate grocery item x" and then "purchase item x" etc. So my "overly detailed" method of getting things done (i.e. turning something as simple as buying toothpaste into a project) occurred because of a computer science background, and I love the idea of "programming your life" for success to achieve what you want (the correct grocery list to the right career path and accomplishments)!:D

so thanks for that "reality check" of how most people utilize GTD, where toothpaste-buying is an item on a list, not a project!!

[validatelife]

so thanks for that "reality check" of how most people utilize GTD, where toothpaste-buying is an item on a list, not a project!!

Because of the below quagmire, "increasing income" is on my "Behavior, Beliefs, and Large-Goal Interests"



Why Not Making Income Psychologicaly Impairs My Life.
The Bottom-Line is: "You can't lead a normal, healthy, simple, and easy life when buying toothpaste is a "project" because of necessary toxic prevention steps and an insanely cramped budget.
I could ramble on and on forever on this one but I'll keep it simple, because it is simple.
1. I generate things to buy throughout the month. These are essential things to buy that everyone should be able to purchase because I'm not living in 1984. I'm not impaired in anyway . I'm not in a prison. I'm extremely intelligent.
2. Some of these "things to buy" include groceries (eggs, milk, lettuce), hygeine items (toothpaste, soap), travel items (gas), electronic items (DVDs to burn recordings, movies to rent, etc.) the list goes on with the VERY rudimentary and VERY basic survival things. I'm not talking about Jaguars, and Mercedezes, and Porsches. I have ZERO interest in fancy cars. I have ZERO interest in things that one would purchase to "show off a brand". I AM interested in purchasing things that has a brand (like Crunch, Apple, Verizon, etc) that has proven to be reliable and "my bag" based on their features. So, conclusively, I'm interested in being able to purchase survival item brands I like, and basic survival food, hygeine, electronic, travel, home, items, and the like, but WITHOUT budget panic.
3. I don't go out and get the things on the list because when they arise, my budget is almost always only 200-300 for the rest of the month.
4. i'm bringing this up because this has a psychological effect on me. Most people (from the David Allen forum) have an @Outside List and on that an action to "Buy Groceries" and on that list "toothpaste" as something to pick up on the list. For me, "Buy Toothpaste", as ridiculous as it sounds" is a PROJECT! Here's why: Buy toothpaste SHOULD be an item on an @Outside --- Buy Groceries list, but it's a proejct for me because:

1. 1. I have to take all these precautionary measures in the Toxic-Toxic environment.
2. I have to take precautionary, overly-budgetted methods before purchasing stuff.

Both those prevent me from getting food and what not. I think, "shoot" I'll have to go to costco, but maybe I should just eat less and do a big shop next month....but I'll have to make sure I have the todo list with me, etc, etc. The point is that those two thigns IMMENSELY overcomplicate something as simple as buying toothpaste. Hearing how "simple" it is for most people to buy toothpaste and grab a bite to eat was good wake-up call. Anything I buy (grab some food, a file folder in walgreens, etc. everything) I have to put a TON of consideration into and decide if I really need it, if I can afford it, if I need to save up for it. Those are great considerations for BIG things like a house or a new fridgerator or something, but NOT for toothpaste and a bagel or something!

Do you understand that? I'm just realizing it, and it's kind of complex, but also really simple.

The Bottom-Line is: "You can't lead a normal, healthy, simple, and easy life when buying toothpaste is a "project" because of necessary toxic prevention steps and an insanely cramped budget.

Other examples of how such a small budget REALLY cramps and limits my life are:

1. If I want to grab a bite to eat while Outside, I likely can't (because I can only afford "eating out" about 2 times per month.
2. If I need to get somethign while outside "on the go" that wasn't previously on a list, I usually can't because

If I had a budget (just envisioning a random number) based on a, for example,100-300k/year income, I could VERY easily and HEALTHILY stop and grab some food or something if I needed out side. Again, I'm realizing how unhealthy it is to NOT have a lot of income. I've head a lot of people say that "money is evil" and you don't need a big budget, but when you don't a)have a group that pays for everything or b)have a decent income to live comfortably, money creates healthier living!!!




Sorry for that little rant. I thought it would help explain how "buying toothpaste" became a project for me. In short, buying toothpaste is a project if:
You have a very low income
and/or
You have a computer science background and accidentally (whoops!:) treated programming people (and your life) the same way as you'd program a computer!

In short, computers require much more detail to Get something Done than a person! You can tell a person to "go buy groceries", but doing that on a computer would take tons and tons of code!! haha:D

[validatelife]

I just keep one uber to-buy list (in a text file that I keep on my pocket pc), separated by major category (groceries, hardware, electronics, cd's & dvd's, books, etc.).

Is your Uber to-buy list items that you can only buy outside? The reason why I ask is I buy many of my non-grocery, non-food items (electronics, cds, etc) online (through amazon or something). With that scenario you'd have two purchasing contexts: @Computer and @Outside, making a single to-buy list somewhat tangled up. I mean if you look at that list while your out and about and most of the items are things you'd planned to purchase online (sometimes where they are discounted), I'd go numb to that list, then. How do you resolve that? If you buy everything outside, then one uber to-buy list would work, but if not. Would you do two seperate categories:

@Computer
Hardware
Electronics
CDS & DVD
*That new movie
*That new CD

and

@Outside


Grocery
Eggs, Milk

Hardware
Wrench, Nails

Electronics

CDS & DVD
*That new movie
*That new CD



or I gues you could put a little checkmark next to an item you planned to purchase online, so they'd all be defaulted to outside purchase items like this:


@Outside
Grocery
Eggs
Milk

Hardware
Wrench
Nails

Electronics

CDS & DVD
*That new movie
*That new CD


LIke I said, I'm excited about this organizational cognition, but I'm really interested in working out the nuances for my personal GTD system.



I used to keep separate lists for each store, but you know what? Grocery stores sell lightbulbs, and so do hardware stores, and so do department stores; so which list am I supposed to put "lightbulbs" on?

Very astute. That makes sense. There are more and more stores that have that "everything" bulk trend these days. I was shocked to find (in a small non-costo-sized grocery story, by the way) TVS, radios, and expresso machines on the top shelf in this small grocery store.


Anyway, the one big list solved that. I more or less just "collect" into that list. Then when I know that I am almost out of something important, or if I need to buy something specific for one of my projects, then I put an explicit destination on my @Errands list.

oh cool. that's a nice distinction. So technically something urgent to buy "could" go on the uber to-buy list and Errands, but you'd just throw it on errands to get it accomplished quickly? So, for example,you notice you're out of bread, salad dressing, and coffee and are working on an @House project of hanging a painting, but are out of nails. Would you then, if you HAVE to have coffee everyday, put "Coffee" (being "important:") and "Nails" (for the project) on @Errands, while salad dressing and bread would just go under "Groceries" of the Uber to-buy list?

That seems highly complicated. Would you then have main categories on the "errands" list? Does you errands list ever get really long?

in some ways, that could be a possibly efficient system, though! cool. thanks for revealing your personal organizing insights.

What I recently tried putting an @Outside "Materials" section under the "Projects" notebook of a google notebook and checked that from my phone. It was a little awkward but worked. Before that, I added grocery items to my phones "to do" list and checked them off one-by-one as I put them in teh shopping cart. That worked "okay" but it was a pain to add them to the phones task list.

Out of curisoity, how do you visiually organize your uber to-buy list? Do you use a word processing electronic file, or just a blank sheet of paper with the grocery, electronics, cds and dvds categories on it?

[validatelife]

I keep separate lists for each major destination: groceries, office supplies, pet stuff, etc. Then my @Errands list simply has "buy groceries" or whatever.

All of this is on paper. That's especially advantageous for shared lists. Anyone who notices that we're out of an item can write it on the list on the kitchen counter. Then whoever does the shopping can just grab the list on the way out the door.

Katherine

While I think jknecht had a good point about why not tos use "destination-specific" categories (grocery stores can carry hardware store items, and pharmacies could carry electronics, for example), your "paper-only" method sounds like a great plan for GTDing with a group, a family evidently(?), which is cool and a bit different than than indiviual GTDing, but that makes a smooth transition, cool.:mrgreen:

[validatelife]

I keep separate lists for each major destination: groceries, office supplies, pet stuff, etc. Then my @Errands list simply has "buy groceries" or whatever.

All of this is on paper. That's especially advantageous for shared lists. Anyone who notices that we're out of an item can write it on the list on the kitchen counter. Then whoever does the shopping can just grab the list on the way out the door.

Katherine

Again that's a brilliant solution for a system where "anyone can PURCHASE the groceries" but here's the big complication I have with that. How do you go about paying for the groceries? Like if sara and joe are sisters and sara put an item she needed on the list and then joe bought all the necessary groceries (sara's item included) would joe make a note for sara to pay him back, or would he just let that go and forget about it? What if their were tons of items from 2-4 differnet people and someone just did a big run and got everything on the list? It seems like it gets ridiculously complicated when you bring in re-imbursing/finances. If everything was free and it was only a matter of "acquiring an item buy finding it" your system woudl be flawless.

I'm interested in how you handle that. I'm guessing you don't do "pay backs" and believe it will all balance out so that eventually everyone buy stuff for everyone? What if you get a free-loader who never buys things on the list but always adds items to it?

[kewms]

Again that's a brilliant solution for a system where "anyone can PURCHASE the groceries" but here's the big complication I have with that. How do you go about paying for the groceries?

My husband and I use the "yours, mine, and ours" system. That is, we both have personal credit cards and bank accounts, plus joint bank accounts. (A system I strongly recommend for all couples, btw.) Whoever goes to the store pays with their credit card, then the joint account pays the bill at the end of the month. We're fiscally comfortable enough that a more detailed accounting isn't necessary.

For a something like a student household, with multiple unrelated people and tighter budgets, the simplest approach might be a house grocery fund to which everyone contributes and from which the shopper draws on presenting a receipt. In that case there would also need to be agreement about house vs. personal purchases. Sally doesn't want to pay for Joe's expensive tastes, but it makes more sense to buy one twelve-pound bag of rice than four three-pound bags.

Katherine

[unstuffed]

So, for example,you notice you're out of bread, salad dressing, and coffee and are working on an @House project of hanging a painting, but are out of nails. Would you then, if you HAVE to have coffee everyday, put "Coffee" (being "important:") and "Nails" (for the project) on @Errands, while salad dressing and bread would just go under "Groceries" of the Uber to-buy list?

That seems highly complicated. Would you then have main categories on the "errands" list? Does you errands list ever get really long?

I think what Katherine meant was that she puts everything on one shopping list, then, when necessary, she puts for example "go to supermarket" on her @Errands list.

And with regards to your buying online versus buying in meatspace, you would have two lists, because the buying happens in two different contexts, as per The David's definition. In order to buy online, you have to be online, and in order to buy in the real world, you have to be out in the real world.



Out of curisoity, how do you visiually organize your uber to-buy list? Do you use a word processing electronic file, or just a blank sheet of paper with the grocery, electronics, cds and dvds categories on it?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a written list for errands, and an electronic list for online shopping. Works because each list is accessible in the appropriate context: it would be useless to have an electronic list on my computer for errands, because I wouldn't have it with me (or not easily).

Go with the flow, and use the means that are appropriate.

[sdann]

For our household, we generate a grocery list next to the fridge, and then we buy. I don't even put "grocery store" on my @errand list, since I never ever forget. Food is the most basic necessity. I also don't schedule sleep.

This comes with time. You get a feel for what you need, what brands you like, or what brands work with your physical situation. You will also make impulse purchases or decide you don't need something on the spur of the moment. If I happen to get the urge to buy the groceries online, which I have done about half a dozen times now, I just mosey on over to the pc.

I don't think everything needs to be over-programmed down to the last detail. As you do it more frequently, you can be a bit more relaxed about it.

[Brent]

The problem with programming everything ahead of time is that you can't truly predict the future. Your plans will not fit your reality.

A certain amount of planning will help you, certainly. However, you will have to make intelligent decisions in the moment. You can't plan out your next week in detail, and have that week go according to your plan.

Go ahead, try it. ;-)

[jknecht]

Is your Uber to-buy list items that you can only buy outside? The reason why I ask is I buy many of my non-grocery, non-food items (electronics, cds, etc) online (through amazon or something).

My "to buy" list is just a collection of stuff I have to buy -- whether I intend to buy it online or in a brick-and-mortar is another matter completely.


LIke I said, I'm excited about this organizational cognition, but I'm really interested in working out the nuances for my personal GTD system.

The best advice I can give here is, don't make it more complicated than it is -- it's just a list of stuff to buy.


So technically something urgent to buy "could" go on the uber to-buy list and Errands, but you'd just throw it on errands to get it accomplished quickly? So, for example,you notice you're out of bread, salad dressing, and coffee and are working on an @House project of hanging a painting, but are out of nails. Would you then, if you HAVE to have coffee everyday, put "Coffee" (being "important:") and "Nails" (for the project) on @Errands, while salad dressing and bread would just go under "Groceries" of the Uber to-buy list?

That seems highly complicated. Would you then have main categories on the "errands" list? Does you errands list ever get really long?

To clarify: I don't generally put the stuff I need to buy on my @errands list (or my @online list, for that matter). Stuff I need/want to buy goes on my "to-buy" list, whether it is urgent or not. If I need to go somewhere, then only the destination goes on my @errands list. Once I get there, then I pull out the to-buy list and see what I can buy while I'm there.

To build on your example... My to-buy list might look like this:

Groceries:
* Millk
* Eggs
* Butter

Hardware:
* Lightbulbs


Then I might realize that I urgently need to go up to the yukon to hunt for silver and gold. So, based on the knowledge of prospecting that I learned from watching Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, I add to my to-buy list:

Groceries:
* Cornmeal
* Hamhocks

Sporting Goods:
* Gunpowder

Music Supplies:
* Guitar Strings


And I add the following items to my next actions lists:

@errands:
* Go to [insert name of favorite grocery store]

@online
* Find best price for guitar strings on www.froogle.com
* Search TSA website to see if I can take gunpowder on a plane

@phone
* Call travel agent to book flight to the Yukon


Depending on whether I find a decent price on guitar strings online, then I may either buy them (resulting in an entry on my @waiting-for list until I receive them in the mail), or I will put "Go to [insert name of favorite music store]" on my @errands list.

If the TSA says I can't take gunpowder on the plane, then "Gunpowder" would stay on my to-buy list until I get to the Yukon.

When I go to the grocery store, I will buy the cornmeal and hamhocks as well as the milk, eggs, and butter that were already on my list. Oh, and hey, there's lightbulbs in the hardware aisle! Better get those while I'm here. Thank goodness I had everything on one list, or I might have missed an opportunity to save myself a trip to another store.



Out of curisoity, how do you visiually organize your uber to-buy list? Do you use a word processing electronic file, or just a blank sheet of paper with the grocery, electronics, cds and dvds categories on it?
Plain text file that I keep on my pocket pc. The basic format is similar to what I demonstrated above:

Groceries:
* Milk
* Eggs
* Butter

Hardware:
* Lightbulb - 60w indoor flood for kitchen ceiling
* Picture frame hangers - at least 5, at least 15 pound capacity

Video Games:
* Tiger Woods Golf (PC version)

etc...

[validatelife]

My husband and I use the "yours, mine, and ours" system. That is, we both have personal credit cards and bank accounts, plus joint bank accounts. (A system I strongly recommend for all couples, btw.) Whoever goes to the store pays with their credit card, then the joint account pays the bill at the end of the month. We're fiscally comfortable enough that a more detailed accounting isn't necessary.

For a something like a student household, with multiple unrelated people and tighter budgets, the simplest approach might be a house grocery fund to which everyone contributes and from which the shopper draws on presenting a receipt. In that case there would also need to be agreement about house vs. personal purchases. Sally doesn't want to pay for Joe's expensive tastes, but it makes more sense to buy one twelve-pound bag of rice than four three-pound bags.

Katherine

Okay, thanks for clarifying that, katherine. I've seen those joint-account banking options on tax forms and I was always like "Why in the world would anyone ever do that??" Now it makes sense...ease of grocery shopping and grocery lists!!!:rolleyes: :D

haha. Cool. okay. As for the for the student "communal grocery fund" idea... I've always been a highly independent and self-sufficient person. During college, while all my friends were out partying, I was writing books. No kidding! The point is that I've had a "system" that's "in my own space" for some time and I'd have to meet unique people who share similar values to ever consider the communal "GTD fund" idea.

But that's clarifying. thanks.

I've just had 4-5 books I write that had become stagnant, web design sites that needed up dates, old papers I needed to share, etc. etc. TONS of big projects. I taught myself web design (many books and tutorials) as a vehicle for sharing professional and personal information. I'd have to SHIFT into web design mode, instead of hiring a web designer, and then shift back into author mode or video-editor mode and, as DA pointed out, it's MUCH easier to continue with one direction, one flow, than to hop around, so GTD has made me aware of all the HUGE (10,000-20,000ft.) projects I have going on. I used to put, on my phone's todo list, things like, "update website". That's so ridiculous because it's WAY out of context! The only thing on the phone's todo list now are phone calls, people agenda, and random things to buy because that's the context in which I'll need to access those lists. I'm still refining the system and ensuring things are "context-specific". The one thing that still confuses me a bit:confused: -- and the original topic of this thread -- is should you take a project like "send mailing list to friends" and then write down all the action steps,
1. Select material I'd want to share.
2. Research HTML-formatted emails.
3. Design a framework for the email.
4. Add in all the links and information. And confirm that all links are active, relevant, and work.
5. Throw in a personalized greeting message.
6. Attach "group contacts" to recipient.
7. Send it.

And then just put that in "Project Support Files" and then just make the next do-able, action-able action on a "next actions" list? So if I had already selected the material to share, I'd start researching html-formatted emails? That makes sense to me. Then I'd put all of those actions in a @Computer project list and only put the top action in the the @Computer Next Actions list.. Does that make sense? I'm still just trying to figure out the best system for deriving action-able next actions from this immense and seriously daunting portfolio of current projects.

[validatelife]

For our household, we generate a grocery list next to the fridge, and then we buy. I don't even put "grocery store" on my @errand list, since I never ever forget. Food is the most basic necessity. I also don't schedule sleep.

This comes with time. You get a feel for what you need, what brands you like, or what brands work with your physical situation. You will also make impulse purchases or decide you don't need something on the spur of the moment. If I happen to get the urge to buy the groceries online, which I have done about half a dozen times now, I just mosey on over to the pc.

I don't think everything needs to be over-programmed down to the last detail. As you do it more frequently, you can be a bit more relaxed about it.

YEah, that's a good point. I've become more and more aware of "staples" -- like a lot of produce, milk, bread, etc. That usually never ends up being a "wrong purchase". And then kind of refining your brand preferences (like whole foods is my favorite grocery place, but then those warehouses -- costco, sams, etc. are cheaper).

[validatelife]

The problem with programming everything ahead of time is that you can't truly predict the future. Your plans will not fit your reality.

A certain amount of planning will help you, certainly. However, you will have to make intelligent decisions in the moment. You can't plan out your next week in detail, and have that week go according to your plan.

Go ahead, try it. ;-)


Yeah, no, trust me. I'm VERY seasoned in trying to plan a week ahead of time. Mind like water, not like rigid linear schedule. Thanks for reminding me of something I've learned many times. However, you can plug in as much detail as possible into a calendar. I'm sorry if you disfavor detailed planning and/or don't think it's possible. I'm still going to continue to plan in detail because I'd much rather look BACK on the week and see all these things I DID (or maybe didn't) accomplish that were on my schedule, than never really know if I got done what I wanted to do.

Thanks for you opinion, but while you may categorize it as "reality-checking", I find it discouraging, and it is an opinion not held be everyone.

[validatelife]

And with regards to your buying online versus buying in meatspace, you would have two lists, because the buying happens in two different contexts, as per The David's definition. In order to buy online, you have to be online, and in order to buy in the real world, you have to be out in the real world.


Ummm, right. Thanks for reiterating that obvious distinction. For some reason some of this advice seems like its coming from people who erroneously assume I've never purchased groceries before or never planned out a calendar! I've done a LOT of that, but like I said, am trying to refine and improve that system.



I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a written list for errands, and an electronic list for online shopping. Works because each list is accessible in the appropriate context: it would be useless to have an electronic list on my computer for errands, because I wouldn't have it with me (or not easily).

Go with the flow, and use the means that are appropriate.

You're right. An errands list stuck on your computer would never be context-specific. However, a PHONE task list is a different story, and I consider it far superior and more efficient to paper-based lists. My system works perfectly for me. I just put "people agenda", "phone calls" and "random stuff to buy" (typically non-groceries) in my phone todo list, so all I need is my phone, which will have the context-specific mini action lists always with me. No messy wads of paper or illegible shopping lists. I just check off each task as I complete it and it's all on the phone! After years of having random slips of paper that contained "half a list" of thigns, and having to consolidate them into one and then "losing the list" and all that chaos, it's all simple and organized neatly in a highly-convenient phone task list. I see people walking around stores hovering over sheets of paper and I used to do that, and atleast it's ensuring you get what you planned, but it's SO much simpler to never have to worry about having which errand lists where and when, if you find yourself in the grocery store, "mind like water", I just pull out my phone, and "hey, great! Here's all these things I've been needing. pop them in the cart and check them off the list". Lists are great and a step in the right direction, but phone context-specific lists are really MUCH more zen than paper lists. Hey, works for me. You don't even have to be super high-tech to figure out a phone task list or just phone word doc on a PDA phone (like palm, q, bb, etc.)

[validatelife]

I just keep one uber to-buy list (in a text file that I keep on my pocket pc), separated by major category (groceries, hardware, electronics, cd's & dvd's, books, etc.).

I used to keep separate lists for each store, but you know what? Grocery stores sell lightbulbs, and so do hardware stores, and so do department stores; so which list am I supposed to put "lightbulbs" on?

Anyway, the one big list solved that. I more or less just "collect" into that list. Then when I know that I am almost out of something important, or if I need to buy something specific for one of my projects, then I put an explicit destination on my @Errands list.

GTD was such a huge discovery for me because I had MASSIVE lists ranging from "experiences I've had", "doctors I've seen", "programs I've been on", "books read", "movies watched", etc. HUGE weird random variety. Much of it irrelevant and PURELY reference. Definitely good to distinguish next actions from reference! haha. But my 5 calendars is working great because I get an invaluable scope of EXACTLY what I was doing when, and can learn which behavior keeps me energized or not, etc. I recommend it to everyone, but many people have rigid, myopic views of calendars and don't want to change them. If you don't want to change your old ways, you shouldn't criticize the ways that are cutting edge! That's what I say.

[sdann]

The one thing that still confuses me a bit:confused: -- and the original topic of this thread -- is should you take a project like "send mailing list to friends" and then write down all the action steps,
1. Select material I'd want to share.
2. Research HTML-formatted emails.
3. Design a framework for the email.
4. Add in all the links and information. And confirm that all links are active, relevant, and work.
5. Throw in a personalized greeting message.
6. Attach "group contacts" to recipient.
7. Send it.

The one thing I have noticed from GTD, as I have created many small projects over some time, is that many projects "repeat" themselves. This is surely true of any web development projects or many client projects. I keep a list of project templates, so that I can reuse past projects and customize them a bit to a current project. I will add certain tasks that I know I have to be aware of doing for that particular project. Yet I try to keep projects manageable and NAs actionable.

I can see how a project can be broken down into tasks like you have listed above. I have created and sent out group mailings, where the details have to be professional. Some emails require more work; others don't. Sending out an email pertaining to a project to a group of clients, colleagues and business partners is different than sending out an email to my book club (this is my example.)

[kewms]

The one thing that still confuses me a bit:confused: -- and the original topic of this thread -- is should you take a project like "send mailing list to friends" and then write down all the action steps,
1. Select material I'd want to share.
2. Research HTML-formatted emails.
3. Design a framework for the email.
4. Add in all the links and information. And confirm that all links are active, relevant, and work.
5. Throw in a personalized greeting message.
6. Attach "group contacts" to recipient.
7. Send it.

And then just put that in "Project Support Files" and then just make the next do-able, action-able action on a "next actions" list? So if I had already selected the material to share, I'd start researching html-formatted emails?

Yes, that sounds fine.

Writing down future action steps (other than the Next Action) is optional. If that level of planning helps, do it, if not don't bother.

Katherine

[validatelife]

Yes, that sounds fine.

Writing down future action steps (other than the Next Action) is optional. If that level of planning helps, do it, if not don't bother.

Katherine

Cool, thanks for the encouragement, katherine! You've provided a lot of relevant and helpful insight from you own GTDing that illuminated possible methods to organize my own life.

For me, personally, writing out future action steps helps me see the entire scope of the project which enables me to gauge (based on energy, time, and context -- DA's characteristics) how long it would take to do the entire project, but alternative I could just look at the top, next action, and do that.

On that note, I realize that GTD is about encouraging one to develop their own system that works for them. There's no right/wrong way to GTD as long as it works for you. That said, I'm having a little trouble figuring out the best "Zen" method for dealing with projects, project support files, and next action steps directly associated with those projects.

If I had to define this problem, I think it would be "Wanting to create a surefire flow from satellite "gathering lists" (@Phone, Waiting On, maybe @Outside) that plug into specific projects and KNOW when I've gathered all the materials needed to complete a project.

Here's two examples: 1. a form I have to fill out that requires me to make a few calls to get account information from people. Untill I make those calls and get the necessary info, I can't complete the form. Would I put the form in "reference" a "General project support" folder or it's own sepcific "The Form Project" folder and then make @Phone call person xyz to get info abc" a next actions list?

Again, I know there's no right/wrong answer to this, but I have a lot of these "semi-completed awaiting more information" projects and want to know how to best deal with them via support materials, as smoothly as possible.

Alternatively, with the mailing list project.


Originally Posted by validatelife View Post
The one thing that still confuses me a bit -- and the original topic of this thread -- is should you take a project like "send mailing list to friends" and then write down all the action steps,
1. Select material I'd want to share.
2. Research HTML-formatted emails.
3. Design a framework for the email.
4. Add in all the links and information. And confirm that all links are active, relevant, and work.
5. Throw in a personalized greeting message.
6. Attach "group contacts" to recipient.
7. Send it.
1. I've designed the email framework and have that stored in an electronic folder.
I am "Waiting On" someone from the school admissions to get back to me on 2 friends' contact info.
3. I've selected out what I want to share and have that jotted down in a computer file (that eventually needs to go into the email framework).
4. I have 2 @Phone Next actions to call people to get some other friends' emails.

Okay, so it suddenly seems like the "Mailing List Project" is scatterd into a "Waiting On" list, some @Phone next actions, and a bunch of @computer next actions. I guess I'm trying to find out the best way to have a solid, as DA puts it, "stake in the ground" for the mailing list project complete with support materials. I guess I could just make a "support materials" file and put in the same folder as the "email framework html", and fill in the blanks, like write the four friends' contact info that I need and when those are completed, I can just eliminate those actions from the "waiting on" list and everything I need will be in that project folder.

It's just that to acocmplish some (most actually) projects, a huge part in completing the project is filling up @Computer Next actions, @Waiting On Lists, and @Phone next actions to gather necessary information that all eventually go into the project folder for that specific project. See what I mean? The bulk the NA work goes into GATHERING. Once I have all the contacts, email construct, everything in the proejct folder, then it's just like a fun puzzle to piece together.

I may be making this too complex, and if so, I appreciate your patience.

So my question is, my @Phone list contains, say 15 calls (2 on apartments, 2 for friends, contacts, "the Mailing List project", 5 casual non-project chats, etc.) how do I plug in and create flow from those "satellite gathering lists" (the "Waiting On"s and the "@Phone"s, for example) that plug-in to my all the necessary project gathering material into the relevant project folder? When I'm in phone-mode, I don't just take care of the project calls, I'll call a few friends for "chats" and then maybe take care of something else. I guess the best thing to do would be to jot down the information I acquired in the specified "project support folder" for a specific project after getting that information (like the friend's contact email or the account numbers needed).

I've done a LOT of recordings for books and think I may try to employ a "audio mental note" system for things I remember out the day (on my phone recording or via a pocket mini recorder). Then at the end of the day, I'l just empty that "audio inbox" of any todos or new gathered information and filter them down into the corresponding GTD tree.

Again, it's Getting there! My process is becoming more defined and efficient. At least I'm not putting @Computer things on my @outside lists and have context-defined tasks,and a MUCH better grasp of my current projects and goals.

Again, I probably should be able to create a fluid system for this on my own, but this has been an ongoing problem, and I'd really appreciate anyone's feedback. Muchas gracias.


-- John

[kewms]

If I had to define this problem, I think it would be "Wanting to create a surefire flow from satellite "gathering lists" (@Phone, Waiting On, maybe @Outside) that plug into specific projects and KNOW when I've gathered all the materials needed to complete a project.


Next Action lists are outputs, not inputs. That is, you look at the project support materials to decide what the Next Action is. You don't use the NA lists to evaluate the status of the project.



Here's two examples: 1. a form I have to fill out that requires me to make a few calls to get account information from people. Untill I make those calls and get the necessary info, I can't complete the form. Would I put the form in "reference" a "General project support" folder or it's own sepcific "The Form Project" folder and then make @Phone call person xyz to get info abc" a next actions list?


It's not reference. Whether it goes in a general project support folder or one specific to this project is really up to you. Big complicated forms (taxes, real estate transactions) probably get their own folder. Short simple forms (driver's license renewal) probably don't need one.



Okay, so it suddenly seems like the "Mailing List Project" is scatterd into a "Waiting On" list, some @Phone next actions, and a bunch of @computer next actions. I guess I'm trying to find out the best way to have a solid, as DA puts it, "stake in the ground" for the mailing list project complete with support materials. I guess I could just make a "support materials" file and put in the same folder as the "email framework html", and fill in the blanks, like write the four friends' contact info that I need and when those are completed, I can just eliminate those actions from the "waiting on" list and everything I need will be in that project folder.


Yes. Exactly.

Katherine

[validatelife]

In nlp, "identifying the one thing that was so helpful about the book" would be an example of "chunking up". Understanding the higher category of why something is helpful. Like, "Eating that orange was so helpful!" Chunking up wold reveal that "nourishing physiology was so helpful!" chunking up even more, "taking care of my body is so helpful!"

So about GTD. I thought of the two biggest things:

1. So if I had to summarize this in a sentence: "putting all-level projects and actions (life-goals to shopping lists) in my scope.
I've done a tremendous amount of work -- lifetimes worth of work -- in writing 1.4 million words in 4 polished books, multiple blogs, and have designed 7 websites. All of those were in "my free time" believe it or not. It's been up to me to publish and market that stuff and get paid for it or, at the very least, utilize ALL of that incredibly wise, beautiful, intelligent writing (of which I know NO ONE whose my age who has done so much qualitative, prolific work) as leverage for success in acting, performance, and/or motivation for which I'll get paid. HOWEVER....I get swept up in friends' bands to see, my brother's games, dinners with parents, arranging apartment moving, getting exercise, all of that "low-level" life stuff and forget about a book I wrote and need to emerge to the world!! David Allen talks about different elevations of actions and projects. Most ALL of my writing is at 50,000 feet -- life-goals, spirituality, beliefs. Then there'se 40,000 feet, consisting of 3-5-year goals, then so on, 20,000 is responsibility, 10,000 is projects and actions and then there's runway, which is always the NEXT action to take (like make a phone call, write an email, get this grocerty item, etc.) Because my writing caused me to operate in the 50,000 level (Which is GREAT and unique and RARE for someone my age, which is why I'm truly wired and on track for massive success), the GTD system allowed me to put ALL levels in my scope. So I could be out grocery shopping for vegetables, but still know that if I checked my projects, reference, and maybe/someday files back at home, I'd "remember" all these other HUGE projects I have going on!
2. The second reason why it's so helpful (and this is really a subcategory of the first reason) is that if someone gave me a business card or a free "gym" class coupon or ANY piece of paper throughout the day, I'd flip out. I wouldn't know what to do with it. I remember one time at this yoga studio in LA and these yoga instructors gave me a free class coupon and I shirked away and they laughed because they said I looked so afraid. They thought I was afraid of "yoga people", which wasn't the case. I was afraid of another piece of paper that was "time-specific" (could only be used on a certain day) that I wouldn't know what to do with. I felt like I had to KEEP in my mental RAM all these books to publish, motivational speaking to do, acting to do and make a career out of FOR CERTAIN, and then I felt like I'd "lose that" by doing simple daily tasks. But you don't lose that! Acting is my passion. it's what I CHOSE to do my junior year in high school. I already made that decision!!! I knew that's what I wanted to do. I've just doubted my decision, or eclipsed myself that I've made it because of lower level (10,000 to runway) to dos. So GTD keeps in check, my decision to do acting, while having things smoothly be added, editted, deleted, adn organized into my life.
3. The bottom line: I'm more aware of EVERYTHING that's an active project in my life and am trying to do versus stuff that's just reference or stuff that's not even in my system and shouldn't be!

Does that make sense? It was just the PERFECT book for me at this time because I'm really NOT "just writing a book for 5 months" and am NOT "just doing a 9-5 web design job". I'm juggling multiple careers, multiple career venues and horizons, and using all of my inteligent and AWESOME writing as leverage and/or as a direct source of income. I was shocked how swept up I got into other MINOR projects that caused me to negelct ENTIRE books I had read!

So this is moving towards the ONE thing and I think it's this: By always keeping fresh in my mind the scope of all my current projects, actions, someday/mabye ideas, and references for those things, I'm CRYSTAL CLEAR on how much I have going on and this gives me the energy and certainty to regain my time and say "No" when necessary. That's it. If someone asks if they want to help them with their project for a few days, and they won't pay me, and I wouldn't get much out if, "no way in hell would I do that"! I just look at my current projects and see something like

1. Keeping old schools up to date of my accomplishments
2. Recording, uploading, and editing Youtube videos.
3. Working on 6 books to publish
4. Look into motivational speaking/ life coachign certifications
5. Create motivational seminar workshop
6. Leadership adventure program -- look into design and lead it.
7. Survivor application -- contact them for a response.
8. Acting -- look into classes, and more auditions
9. Audio Recordings -- upload some more
10. Online Income -- add "checkout system" to my lifecoaching, audio recordings, and other info online.
11. Keep 4 blogs updated
12. Publish John Kooz site
13. Refine VYL site (with blog)
14. HEalth -- stay healthy
15. Life long-term goals -- health, career, gf, freinds
16. Relocat to a CA and/or ELE environment
17. Refine "one and the same video" upload it.
18. Keep in touch with GTD, psych, rottentomaties, song meanings forums.
19. Keep in touch with friends through Facebook, Gmail, and Myspace.
20. Possibly look into sales.
21.

And that VALIDATES MY TIME. I'm MUCH more focused on me and on my time. Before gTD, I'd forget that I wanted to publish my books, and forget that I'm working on a personal bio site, etc. for example, and I'd be like "sure, I could sacrifice a few random days" for some person out of selflessness. now, I'm like NO WAY IN HELL!!! Iv'e got so much going on. This is GREAT and seriously nourishing to my life because it means that the QUALITY of events I do decide to partake in, for me to even consider them, will have to have a HIGH quality in their nature and will have to genuinely further my career, sucess, health, friends, and/or happiness. That's a GREAT thing to know. To know that with this system, I'll say "no" to events that would have wasted my time or things that I've already tried like trying to do book publishing is something, in part, that I've tried a lot of , it's important to remember that, to move forward as much as possible.

"With GTD I keep my current projects, actions, desires, and references in check, in my scope -- fresh in my mind -- so that I control my time and and life more by, frankly, saying "no" to other things, people, conversations, and/or events that would be incredibly incongruent or not relevant to my time." I've spent SOOO many years just being around people and knowing that those relationships were ToTALLY incongruent and irrelevant to my life direction, goals, projects, and tasks. Now, with all my projects, tasks, actions, desires, and references in "view" like "emerged on my mental surface", the only thing that makes sense to me now is interacting with highly successful people, actors, performers, great motivational speakers and/or authors, and/or people just HIGHLY emotionally evolved!! Taking command of my personal projects and life, instantly transfers to being able to take command of whom and whom I don't interact with.

Like at the bar the other night. I had a decent, good, cordial conversation with this 25 year-old woman and we talked about baseball teams and she was giving me a hard time about liking the cubs, and I just queued up in my mind like "current projects of " "publish books, get into acting, move to CA, focus on health, etc." and I was like. This woman is a moron. She's stuck in some chicago-view where one sports team is better than the other, I don't have time for this, and then was just like "okay, I have to go!". Arguing over which sports team is better is just WAY too myopic for me. I went on to have MUCH more meaningful and rewarding conversations. Without GTD I would have likely WASTED my time and continued that conversation for a few more hours, or who knows, longer!! yikes!

So I guess the most succinct AWESOME effect of GTD is it gives me the incentive to more quickly, tactfully, and appropriately, "say no" to stupid things that get proposed to me throughout my daily life while engaging only the rewarding progressive experiences!!!


That said, I've developed my 6 key context-specific categories for Next Actions.
They're

@Phone
@Outside -- includes all errands
People-specific -- just a preferable name to all "agenda" information, things to say to person x, y, etc.
@Computer
@Apartment - I have a home based office, so @Home and @Office are synonyous for me.
Read/Review


And the nifty acronym for that is POPCAR!! Cool.

[validatelife]

Next Action lists are outputs, not inputs. That is, you look at the project support materials to decide what the Next Action is. You don't use the NA lists to evaluate the status of the project.


Nice!! NA=outputs not inputs. THAT REALLY HELPS. I was kind of transforming NAs into a quasi-inbox of amorphorous next actions. Cool, so this is immensely clarifying. All the project planning should start in a preojct and support materials folder and any project-based NAs should be descendants of project plans and/or support materials? Okay, that makes a lot of sense.



It's not reference. Whether it goes in a general project support folder or one specific to this project is really up to you. Big complicated forms (taxes, real estate transactions) probably get their own folder. Short simple forms (driver's license renewal) probably don't need one.


Okay, yeah' you're right, that definitely would NOT be reference becaust it's still actionable! However, i like your idea of seperate folders but would, following the "complicated forms" idea, would i have -- possibly -- a Project folder and in that a "complicated financial forms" folder and possibly in that a "real estate transaction" and "taxes" folder or something of that? The main thing here is that I should have folders within the projects folder? That's easy peasy lemon squeazy with computer folders (electronic folders), but you'd have to get a larger mini-filing folder for projects, or maybe just a a cardboard box for projects.

Right now, I am INSANELY sloppy. I used Google Notebooks for GTD (and have the main categories of processing in each of their seperate notebooks (Inbox, NA, Projects, Maybe/Someday, and REference)

And then I have the same system (with different stuff) in 5 desktop folders (local).

I also have a similar organizing thing in a program called My Mind with and addition 5 GTD processing folders (Inbox, NA, Projects, Maybe/Someday, and REference)

And when I didn't have access ot the internet, I had to create a make shift word doc with those files in it.

Additionally I have one set of hard copy (actual physical manilla folders and a whicker basket for the 5 GTD processing categories)

Fortunately, I only have one calendar, which is convenient!

In short, I have 4 seperate GTD systems running each with their individual (and often overlapping) projects, NAs, reference, and maybe somedays! It's the EPITOME of chaos from organization!! haha. I think the best remedy to that convoluted quagmire is to just consider 1 of those 4 electronic GTDs the MAIN system and then just dump all contents of the other 3 GTDs in the inbox of hte Main one.

Talk about "meta organizing" huh? Putting multiple organizing GTD systems in and inbox!!! Wow. That's almost trippy, it's so cognitively recursive!!! haha.:-D

[validatelife]

Nice!! NA=outputs not inputs. THAT REALLY HELPS. I was kind of transforming NAs into a quasi-inbox of amorphorous next actions. Cool, so this is immensely clarifying. All the project planning should start in a preojct and support materials folder and any project-based NAs should be descendants of project plans and/or support materials? Okay, that makes a lot of sense.



Okay, yeah' you're right, that definitely would NOT be reference becaust it's still actionable! However, i like your idea of seperate folders but would, following the "complicated forms" idea, would i have -- possibly -- a Project folder and in that a "complicated financial forms" folder and possibly in that a "real estate transaction" and "taxes" folder or something of that? The main thing here is that I should have folders within the projects folder? That's easy peasy lemon squeazy with computer folders (electronic folders), but you'd have to get a larger mini-filing folder for projects, or maybe just a a cardboard box for projects.

Right now, I am INSANELY sloppy. I used Google Notebooks for GTD (and have the main categories of processing in each of their seperate notebooks (Inbox, NA, Projects, Maybe/Someday, and REference)

And then I have the same system (with different stuff) in 5 desktop folders (local).

I also have a similar organizing thing in a program called My Mind with and addition 5 GTD processing folders (Inbox, NA, Projects, Maybe/Someday, and REference)

And when I didn't have access ot the internet, I had to create a make shift word doc with those files in it.

Additionally I have one set of hard copy (actual physical manilla folders and a whicker basket for the 5 GTD processing categories)

Fortunately, I only have one calendar, which is convenient!

In short, I have 4 seperate GTD systems running each with their individual (and often overlapping) projects, NAs, reference, and maybe somedays! It's the EPITOME of chaos from organization!! haha. I think the best remedy to that convoluted quagmire is to just consider 1 of those 4 electronic GTDs the MAIN system and then just dump all contents of the other 3 GTDs in the inbox of hte Main one.

Talk about "meta organizing" huh? Putting multiple organizing GTD systems in and inbox!!! Wow. That's almost trippy, it's so cognitively recursive!!! haha.:-D

This link (http://lifehacker.com/software/geek-to-live/getting-things-done-with-google-notebook-256844.php) drew me to the Google Notebooks approach to GTD, but I had already started a local electronic set of folders, and then during a few days without the interent, I started the single temporary sheet, and the whole thing got out of hand. Google notebooks is a bit cumbersome, but very awesome because it can be accessed from the phone and most computer-based inbox items are online anyway, but for more elaborate projects it gets complicated and without interent access, I'm screwed. The electronic desktop folders works okay, but it's pretty bland and not fancy. My Mind works well, but I think the bottom-line to all this is ANY ONE of those systems will work infinitely better than having multiple ones running. Just the idea that I've had to check like 4 (notebooks, my mind, dekstop, and physical whicker or manilla folder) inboxes and NA lists is like the complete OPPOSITE DA was trying to take people! haha! consolidating will improve all of this.

[TesTeq]

validatelife,

I'm impressed that you use so much of your valuable time to test various GTD methodology implementations and implications and report to us the results of these tests. I even have no time to read everything you are writing!

[validatelife]

There's a lot of great articles on setting an electronic GTD via google (notebooks, docs, and calendar)
here (http://note2.industriousone.com/gettings-things-done-google)

and

here (http://lifehacker.com/software/geek-to-live/getting-things-done-with-google-notebook-256844.php)

and elswhere.

That way, all I'd need is a browser for all electronic GTD processing. that's pretty "zen" lol.

And then I'd just have my set of "physical" GTD buckets totalling only 2 (one physical and one electronic) inboxes, projects, reference, NA, and maybe/someday, and "waiting on" buckets, and 1 glcalendar.

If I don't have interent, then I am screwed for electronic processing, but could just use the temporary folders and then transfer that to Notebooks. the only thing is I really like the "My Mind" program because I can do so much with hotkeys from the keyboard (google is a lot of clicking). blast. lol.

[validatelife]

I have a NA "Print of headshots". I suddenly realize I'm out of ink. Now "Print of headshots" has become a project, when it would have been a simple NA if it werent' for the ink cartridge. Should put in my @Computer projects and then add "get ink cartridge" to @Outside? I guess that would ensure I have a "stake in teh ground" for the previously NA-now-project "print off photos".

--- John

[validatelife]

validatelife,

I'm impressed that you use so much of your valuable time to test various GTD methodology implementations and implications and report to us the results of these tests. I even have no time to read everything you are writing!

Haha! thanks for the compliment, but if you " even have no time to read everything you are writing" then maybe you should be GTDing better! haha. Just kidding. Thanks for the positive feedback, but really, In GTDing, i've realized that I need to shift the focus of my life to career and things relevant to the CORE of my life, instead of dilly-dallying with peripheral things.

[validatelife]

Being away from California, I've been stuck in a place where the career things that I should ( and will ) be taking up my time are on hold. Being in somewhat of a temporal purgatory, I've found posting on these boards the best use of my time, to get primed up for when I get back to a resource-rich environment. Thanks for bearing with me.

[kewms]

Okay, yeah' you're right, that definitely would NOT be reference becaust it's still actionable! However, i like your idea of seperate folders but would, following the "complicated forms" idea, would i have -- possibly -- a Project folder and in that a "complicated financial forms" folder and possibly in that a "real estate transaction" and "taxes" folder or something of that? The main thing here is that I should have folders within the projects folder? That's easy peasy lemon squeazy with computer folders (electronic folders), but you'd have to get a larger mini-filing folder for projects, or maybe just a a cardboard box for projects.

Devote as much space to filing as the project requires. For some projects, that might be a few sheets of paper. For others, it might be whole rooms full of files.

Personally, I like to keep my filing hierarchies as flat as possible. So I wouldn't have "complicated financial forms" as a category, I'd have "2007 taxes," "Boston house sale," or "January trip expenses."



In short, I have 4 seperate GTD systems running each with their individual (and often overlapping) projects, NAs, reference, and maybe somedays! It's the EPITOME of chaos from organization!! haha. I think the best remedy to that convoluted quagmire is to just consider 1 of those 4 electronic GTDs the MAIN system and then just dump all contents of the other 3 GTDs in the inbox of hte Main one.

That's what I would do. You might eventually decide that you need parallel systems--for instance if you work on some projects *exclusively* in particular physical or online environments--but in general consolidation reduces the chances that things will get lost.

Katherine

[validatelife]

validatelife,

I'm impressed that you use so much of your valuable time to test various GTD methodology implementations and implications and report to us the results of these tests.

Hey, what can I say, I had a LOT of open loops, projects, and next actions clouding my brain. GTD Works! I finally found a system that works. I exercise better, think more clearly, have a MUCH greater sense of mobility. I wanted to share my gratitude for the GTD system! It's awesome! Finally something that works for me and my needs instead of some structure that creates problems. i just put problems INTO gtd and it processes them to get successful results!!

But, yes, I DID go a little overkill on sharing my findings, experimentations, and evolution of getting to a good blend of a working system using GTD, and probably should have been using my time elsewhere (like actually doing some of the stuff I've now categorized and now have a handle on) from GTD, but I just wanted to 1)Share the excitement and gratitude and 2)work out any other kinks to the system that fits PERFECTLY with my personality. I have a lot of computer science and some cognitive background and the "loops" and thinking about thinking (cognition) was immensely congruent to my needs.


I even have no time to read everything you are writing!

Said, the person with over a 1000 posts on this board!!! haha.

Thanks.

You're right though. Gotta move forward now that my "stuff" is no longer a burdening amoprphorous mass, but a pristine, precise, and "mind like water" system (it's getting there at least )!