GTD for the not so busy?

[NoobIT]

Hello, I'm new to GTD and find it fascinating. It really seems geared to the ultra-busy people which I am not. Having said that, I do like to be organised and on top of things, even at the 50,000ft level. I've pretty much gone through the whole book and need some advice if anyone is able to help please?

First off, is GTD a bit OTT for the not-so-very-busy? I only have around 5-6 projects on the go.

Second, After having created my projects list, what do I do? This doesn't seem very well explained. Am I supposed to think about all or just one of the next action steps for each project and add them to my next actions lists?

Third, sometimes I get really long emails sent to me, they go way over the 2minute rule just to determine what to do with them - so the question is, which actions list should this be assigned to? Does it make sense to have a @UnreadEmails?

Many thanks
NoobIT

[kewms]

If you only have five or six projects, you may need to make sure that you've really captured *everything,* and that you've followed the GTD definition of a project. While you know your workload better than I do, that's a very very small number. If you're only including, say, your currently assigned work deliverables, then you're probably missing the majority of the things that are actually going on in your life.


Second, After having created my projects list, what do I do? This doesn't seem very well explained. Am I supposed to think about all or just one of the next action steps for each project and add them to my next actions lists?

To move a project forward, all you need is the very next physical action. That goes on your NA list. Now, you may find that you'd rather plan things out in much more detail. That's fine, but those additional plans are project support, not Next Actions (unless they are immediately doable with no dependencies).

As a practical matter, I find that I build my NA lists and my project list in parallel. For instance, today I received an email assigning me to write an article about purple widgets (not the actual topic) by June 1. So "write purple widget article" goes on my project list, and the next actions are "@call usual contacts to set up purple widget interviews" and "@read abstracts from December's widget conference." Since this one has a deadline, it also goes in my calendar and on my whiteboard.


Third, sometimes I get really long emails sent to me, they go way over the 2minute rule just to determine what to do with them - so the question is, which actions list should this be assigned to? Does it make sense to have a @UnreadEmails?

Technically it's possible, but I wouldn't advise it. If you can't figure out what to do with an email right away, answering it is probably a project. (Part of why you might have more projects than you think.) The very next action, then, would be to figure out what to do next. That might mean calling the sender for clarification, looking up some numbers, or pulling a case file. Or it might mean setting aside some time to review the 20-page attachment. If you use an Unread Email file, you've just delayed the actual decision. You haven't emptied your inbox, you've just moved it.

Hope this helps,

Katherine

[NoobIT]

Thanks for you clear response and practical example, this really does help convey your message.

Perhaps you are right, my understanding of a 'project' is slightly flawed. I have 7 items on my projects list and 127 on next actions lists. I never realised that reading through large emails are actually considered projects and that the next action could be, figure out what to do. I've just lumped these into @Computer and/or @Read categories. I'll move all of these out into my projects list and create corresponding next actions. If I do this however, how do I maintain a link between the next action and the multi-step project its associated with? I don't recall if this was covered in the book, so is this even advisable? Personally I manage everything using Outlook Tasks without any additional software tools/plugins.

Any experienced GTD members that are reading this, do you have any practical examples like Katherine kindly explained in her widget analogy? Such real-world examples really help crystallize the theory covered in the book.

Many thanks, NoobIT

[Cpu_Modern]

I'll move all of these out into my projects list and create corresponding next actions. If I do this however, how do I maintain a link between the next action and the multi-step project its associated with? I don't recall if this was covered in the book, so is this even advisable?

How do you now who you are?

You just know it, right?

You look into the mirror and think "Hey, it's me! Cool."

You recognize yourself. You have consciousness.

GTD does not enable you to live without consciousness.

Now, the link between a NA and it's corresponding project works the same as the link between your self and your image in a mirror.

You just see the NA on a list and you instantly know which project it belongs to.

So for example you have a project "going to vote for the lesser evil at the final elections". Your NA is "check out local website to find out where they put the ballots this time and where I can park my car" and it sits on your @computer or @webbrowser list or whatever context you have for these.

Now, when you read this next action, don't you instantly see what the project is here? You don't have to immediately recall every nitty detail of a given project (that's where the project support material comes into play), but if you consider the NA as a jump point to further advance towards the completion of the project, you don't need to. Just get going and consciousness will help you. DA calls those NAs "action reminders", not "walking blueprint" os so.

You may want to check out this podcasts with DA and MM (http://www.43folders.com/2006/11/28/productive-talk-comp) from 43.folders. They discuss this topic in one of their talks.

[NoobIT]

Great, well written, I like this forum. ;) Thanks for the clarity and example, it really helps. I agree, I know in a glance exactly which project each action is associated with. Was just unsure whether you ought to create some kind of association for later tracking perhaps - not that I do this mind. Thanks again, and thanks for the website links too, I'll check 'em out.

Many thanks,

NoobIT.

[Cpu_Modern]

Well, the tracking does not make sense on the NA level because you don't write down every Action you perform for a project. You just write down the NA once you stopped working on the project. Think of a NA as a bookmark for a project.

Tracking completion dates of projects can make sense, though. Or time-logging. And then you still have the project plans, these can be used as a progress tracking device.

[kewms]

Perhaps you are right, my understanding of a 'project' is slightly flawed. I have 7 items on my projects list and 127 on next actions lists. I never realised that reading through large emails are actually considered projects and that the next action could be, figure out what to do. I've just lumped these into @Computer and/or @Read categories.

Remember, a GTD project is any outcome requiring more than one action to complete. And a next action is an immediately doable physical activity that moves the project forward. So I'd say it's highly likely that many of those 127 next actions have projects associated with them. Possibly the *same* project, in some cases.

The clear definition of a next action is one of the key ideas of GTD. It's the difference between a Next Action list and a To Do list. Especially in the beginning, it's a good idea to be pretty rigorous about making sure you've broken actions down far enough.

Katherine

[NoobIT]

Hmm, thats interesting. So you can work on a project, ie doing the next action, and continue without tracking or recording any subsequent next actions until you've stopped working on it, at which point you update the next actions list.

Blimey, somehow I didn't understand this when going through the book, clearly I need to re-read it, do you know what specific section covers this area? Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate your experienced advice for a noobie! :)

Thanks NoobIT.

[NoobIT]

Yes, I think you're right Katherine, the distinction between a todo list and next actions list hits the nail on the head of my specific issue. Thanks very much for taking the time to educate a newbie with clarity and helpful suggestions. When I'm back in the office I can see I need to be much more rigid when determining next actions and defining projects.
Many thanks, NoobIT.

[Nola123]

I would also like to say thank you to all who contributed to this thread. I learned a ton from it.

Michele

[John Forrister]

Be sure to give yourself plenty of slack. It can take time and practice to re-groove your thinking.

One way I surface projects is to look back and ask myself what I've been thinking about. It could be a thought that whizzes by for a split second, or something I dwell on for minutes at a time. Often when I ask myself what has my attention, I become aware (do I sound like Hal or Skynet?) in an expanded way. Thanks to CPU_Modern for getting me onto the 'consciousness' track today.

Two examples from my life today. 1) I put on my belt this morning and for an instant I note that it's more snug than it was a year ago. That instant is fast, but it also has room for a jolt of self-criticism about neglecting health as an area of focus. 2) I daydream for five whole minutes about how I would structure a review of a book I began reading.

The first one is quick, but still has an intensity of attention that tells me that my project and action lists better have items that help me get a handle on my love handles. The second one tells me I need to add that new book to my list of potentials for review, and start capturing notes about it.

-- John

[NoobIT]

Thanks John. LOL@Love handles ;), great example, its stuff like that which really help cement these ideas in a clear way. Thanks for taking the time to explain these more subtle techniques. I can see now that even thoughts which flash through your mind in a fleeting moment can be critically important when breaking down a project to its ultimate next action step. Good stuff.

Trying to re-groove my thinking is pretty tough, sheesh! I seem to be in constant battle with myself when emptying my inbox to zero, worried I'll lose visibility of a critical email in there, even though I know I have the right lists/reminders to highlight that very email! I'm thinking I ought to rename my inbox to something like, DOORMAT! I actually tried to rename it in Outlook today but it wouldn't let me...confounded thing!

Thanks again and glad others are finding this thread helpful.

Thanks, NoobIT.

[quantumgardener]

Hi NoobIT,

Wonderful to see someone so engaged. Keep it up and you'll learn quickly.

GTD is very much a journey, as John Forrister suggests. Many go through rounds of learning and understanding. For me it has been a system where you need to get Part A in place to understand Part B.

Your first comment suggests GTD is only for busy people. Perhaps they are busy, rather effective, because they use GTD.

Keep in mind the definition of "Project = anything that takes more than one action to complete". And that an action is a physical thing. Sure you may have to do some thinking but the physical thing is "List my ideas" or "Create a mindmap about...". Those two definitions, plus a regular weekly review, keeping to the 2-minute rule and working the collect-process-organise-review-do cycle will keep you in excellent shape.

In 2-3 months come back and see what you've learnt.

David

[fapapa]

Hi Noobit,

I too am new to GTD and I came on this forum to ask the exact same question about projects and next actions. I didn't want to ask a question that had already been asked, so I was going to do a search, but your Thread Title caught my eye and I decided to click on it before doing my search. . . to my surprise, there was my question!!!

The answers really do help, so thanks to everyone who contributed.

I do have one small criticism for the great Mr. Allen, but before I give that, let me say that I am very grateful for his book. Just the part on brainstorming is worth the price of the book; and there are many gems (the tickler file, distinguishing between hard calendar-type actions and as-soon-as-possible-type actions, and so on) that are also EACH worth the price of the book. I've (tactfully) recommended the book to many people so far. That said, I take issue with the technical language of the book; it is full of jargon and very difficult to comprehend without reading the same section several times through. And I have above-average reading comprehension and IQ. I think an overhaul of it could make it a much more easy, enjoyable read, not to mention being more accessible. I can personally think of a half-dozen people that would greatly benefit from the book, but will probably never have the patience to get through the whole thing.

If someone (who has a say in the matter) would like some concrete examples of what I mean, I would be happy to provide those. Thanks again and God Bless.

[Jeff K]

I take issue with the technical language of the book; it is full of jargon and very difficult to comprehend without reading the same section several times through. And I have above-average reading comprehension and IQ.


I would be interested to see some examples of the overly technical and jargon-y language you cite. I know from an audio interview with David Allen, that great efforts were made to remove as many time-sensitive "buzzwords" as possible, in order to make the content of the book as "evergreen" as possible, and outlive any current technological trends as much as possible.

[DStaub11]

Noobit, here's another example of a project, currently on my list: "Decide whether to say yes to the last-minute invitation to give a workshop at xxx conference in June." A traditional do list would just have this item, and when I looked at it my brain would freeze, because it really is a project. Some of the next actions I need to take: Ask registrar how many people are signed up, review subject materials and estimate needed prep time, review calendar and consult with partner on whether I can easily be away at that time, research flight times and costs...some of these go on my next actions list. And as someone said, I won't forget which project they're about!

Hope that's helpful.

Do Mi

[fapapa]

Hi Jeff,

I don't want to spend too much time wading through the book to find a good example if it isn't going to be useful and constructive. But maybe "jargon" was the wrong word for me to use. The problem to me is more that the writing style is too "stiff," if that makes any sense. One example that comes to mind is that "The Threefold Model for Evaluating Daily Work" (p. 196) is much harder to "get" than "Don't Let Urgent 'Stuff' Hijack your Day," for example. Of course this is just a heading and there are entire paragraphs (and chapters) that this can be done to.

To distill the problem down even further, even David Allen himself admits that there is nothing new or earth-shattering about his system; that it's all just really good common sense. It should all be very simple. And yet it is obvious that after reading the book, many people are left with questions about pretty important parts of the system (like the questions in this thread). It's not as clear and simple as it should be. The biggest criticism I've heard against the GTD system is that it's too complicated, when really it isn't; but the book is.

I know that that's a pretty big criticism, so I just want to make it clear how much of a fan of the system I am. I'm a chronic procrastinator, more so than most, from what I can tell. I've tried many times, without success, to organize my life; this is the only system that has worked (yes, I'm still a newby, but I have faith that it will continue to work). So please don't take my criticism as a stab at the system. I hope you see it instead as it is: a critique flowing from my enthusiasm for the system and my desire to share it with others.

[kewms]

To distill the problem down even further, even David Allen himself admits that there is nothing new or earth-shattering about his system; that it's all just really good common sense. It should all be very simple. And yet it is obvious that after reading the book, many people are left with questions about pretty important parts of the system (like the questions in this thread). It's not as clear and simple as it should be. The biggest criticism I've heard against the GTD system is that it's too complicated, when really it isn't; but the book is.

On the other hand, in my experience reading the forum, it seems like many of the questions come from people who are trying to make the system more complicated than it is. They're searching for a perfect software implementation, say, when all they really need is a legal pad and a box of folders. Or they're trying to create a complete hierarchy, from the 50,000 foot level all the way down to the runway, when the book doesn't advocate any such thing.

One of the hardest parts of studying martial arts is learning to trust that relaxation really is more powerful than all that tension most people carry around. When people are just getting started with GTD, it seems like they don't yet trust that simplicity can work.

Katherine

[fapapa]

I'm totally with you, Katherine. But that's not the kind of questions I was talking about. I think you would have to agree that the questions asked on this thread are not of that type; and maybe the top thing people have trouble with is understanding the review process (not to mention the difference between the types of reviews). These types of questions are not the type that you are referring to, they are a reflection of readers that just don't "get" certain parts of the system. I'm sure that many of you are thinking "but these questions are answered in the book on page . . ." That's exactly the problem: most of these questions are covered in the book but many people, myself included, just don't grasp certain parts. That's a good sign that the book is not as clear as it could be.

Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way. If that's the case I'll just shut up. The only reason I brought this up at all is that I thought it might be useful, I'm sorry if it wasn't. Cheers.

[NoobIT]

David (quantumgardner), Thanks for the posting and excellent advice, I feel like such an infant, lol! I'm glad the journey is fruitful - getting my inbox to 0 was just great :). Thanks for the clarity on project definitions, Katherine got me kick started on that so I'm going over that section again.

Fapapa - hey cool, glad this thread is useful, thanks for your input. For me personally, this GTD stuff is just brill! No real problems with the book for me, though I agree with you re-reading is required as I'm doing now! Asking questions here in this forum and the very clear examples offered in response relly help illuminate the subtleties that I didn't absorb first pass. I'm going through the material more slowly this time.

DStaub11 - thanks for the post and simple example, most helpful. I can see the boundries in my system are slightly blurred, thus I have a bunch of next actions that are actually projects. I was pretty sure I had done the requisite thinking on each item in my inbox, but have learnt from the contributors to this thread the error in my technique! For example, on my @Computer list I had an important but very long email. My next action was, "reply to email". Verb included, seemed OK to me. I have now spent just a little longer thinking about this email. This is now a project where the next action is read entire email. When scanning the email I noticed it included a request for me to check a remote computer and report back details. This along with a few more screens of text make this multi-step, a project.

Just to conclude, i'm really enjoying my first foray with GTD. Although obvious, the @WaitingFor list is just great. It allowed me to give Dell a ticking off recently when I (and they) had forgotten about a purchasing enquiry. My thinking, my folders, my tasks and categories have all changed as a result of GTD. As this equates to a productivity boost, I'm happy :).

Thanks,
NoobIT.

[Cpu_Modern]

@all
Thank you very much for all the rave about my contributions :D

[Jeff K]

The problem to me is more that the writing style is too "stiff," if that makes any sense. One example that comes to mind is that "The Threefold Model for Evaluating Daily Work" (p. 196) is much harder to "get" than "Don't Let Urgent 'Stuff' Hijack your Day," for example. Of course this is just a heading and there are entire paragraphs (and chapters) that this can be done to.



That's really interesting - I wouldn't have had that perspective on my own. Personally and professionally, I tend to relate to material that is presented more on the basis of principle-founded thought forms, and I gobbled GTD up like a teenager emptying the fridge for an after-school snack.

I can appreciate how people have different reading/learning styles, and the particular structure and style of GTD is not for everyone, although the principles certainly can enhance most people's lives at some level.

All the Coles notes version of GTD would have to say is : "Keep stuff out of your head, so you can use it for what it does best : focus and creativity.".

The "complexity" that GTD becomes for people is because we are generally not used to thinking in terms of principles, and it is all too easy to get confused by the details. Once the principles are fully digested, the details organically emerge within any individual situation, and what to do becomes as obvious as plucking ripe apples off the tree. (Which is not to say that it isn't valuable to learn from other people's systems, methods, software implementation, etc.)

Its the same as in the martial arts traditions, where slavish imitation of the teacher ultimately misses the point that the student's job is to internalize the principles for themselves through the examples, not just by becoming capable of reproducing the examples mechanically.

So, for example, all the confusion about how and when to do reviews at different horizons should ultimately come down to the question of whether or not someone has successfully got their "stuff" totally off their mind, or if not, what do they need to do to get there? All the checklists, methods, software tweaks, etc., are just icing on the cake, but only once the cake is fully baked in terms of being founded on an internalized understanding of the core principles.

[Brent]

Wow.

Jeff K, that's perfect. Bravo.

[Cpu_Modern]

All the checklists, methods, software tweaks, etc., are just icing on the cake, but only once the cake is fully baked in terms of being founded on an internalized understanding of the core principles.

I found this again in Sun Tzu's "Art of War":

"All men can see the tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved. "

Is this a way to describe GTD or what? ;)

[justin caise]

... you may need to make sure that you've really captured *everything,* and that you've followed the GTD definition of a project... If you're only including, say, your currently assigned work deliverables, then you're probably missing the majority of the things that are actually going on in your life."

To move a project forward, all you need is the very next physical action. That goes on your NA list. Now, you may find that you'd rather plan things out in much more detail. That's fine, but those additional plans are project support, not Next Actions (unless they are immediately doable with no dependencies).

Katherine

More on this, (I agree with Katherine) - a good read about this stuff is from the Davidco.com website. It is a PDF file called "Stalking the Wild Projects". It'd be nice if I had so few projects while implimenting my system (still at it) Also, I was stressed in a major way about a looming dead line on a project which I hadn't even begun to plan. Planning the project was a plan in itself - not only because I'm anal retentive and procrastive (procrastinary?)- but some of its actions were obvious and not dependant on other actions and I could see a reasonable place to start, so therefore, placing a next action on my list started the project rolling and took away the pressure. I've also got a next action now to plan the project when time and other contexts permit, that way I'm not just lying to myself about having satisfied the outcome and sweeping it under the rug hoping it goes away.

JC

[alsa]

I have to say that I don't lead a very project-rich life. I have few obligations, and they are easily trackable with a certain degree of effort, in which GTD is THE system for me. I find that if I stick to the basic GTD principles and at least do the weekly review on a consistent basis and move on my projects, however few and simple they are, I can achieve measurable success: Things Get Done, projects get moved on, things get accomplished in a logical and timely manner -- that is all I really demand from ANY system, and GTD (for me) is THE system that works here and now. It has taken some time for many points and attributes of the system to sink in and become second nature. At this point I don't see how I can have it any other way. David, in his 2 books, basically outlined some of the MAJOR principles that are applicable in ANY organization and self-actualization system, however complex and demanding the outcome. I was one of the early adopters of the system (after the book came out in early 2001 at least) and I am glad I joined the "movement" early on. I would advise anyone looking for a way to better themselves and get control of the demands of their life by getting a grasp of GTD on, first, a primitive level, and then, slowly perhaps, embarking on a richer and higher level GTD journey. Good luck to all you, fellow travelers.