How can I stay focus and stay off of non productive websites [Archive]

whochrisporter

01-25-2009, 11:40 AM

I'm a 22 year old web designer, I work at a design firm, freelance, and i'm finishing up school for web design in march.

Right now, I'm losing more money than gaining because I can't stay focus on what I need to do such as school work, freelance, and 9-5. I seriously thinking about quitting freelance because I've been late on deadlines so much and not doing what I'm supposed to do for projects such as posting websites live before I test it for errors.

I'm trying therapy, which my therapist says i may have a big addiction to the internet, and tech toys, which keeps me unfocused on stuff i need to do...and may need some help on that...

I also doing David Allen's mythology called Getting Things Done, which I'm reading the book and trying to apply his methods so I won't have so much on my mind and stay organized.

I've tried software, but its been so buggy that its no use using it. The software disables me from sites like facebook, smashingmagazine, lifehacker, and twitter at hours at a time and then open back up for an hour.

Right now, I'm trying an app called Cooktimer, which is set for a 30 minute countdown to do work...and then 2 minutes after that of browsing.

My last choice was either militant force (having someone yell at me for getting off task until I'm almost forced to being fired or losing money, or worst)...

Does anyone have ways of not randomly going to facebook when you have work to be done, because seriously I've lost so much money, I'm not keeping up with invoices (may be in trouble in the tax arena), and basically I don't know if I'm ready to be in the major work force (on salary) after I graduate

Thanks

mackiest

01-25-2009, 02:39 PM

jamiewlove

01-25-2009, 05:46 PM

You might talk to your therapist or another psychologist / psychiatrist about ADHD or attention deficit disorder. One does not need to have the hyperactivity or be stupid. I am a successful physician and I was diagnosed at the age of 34. When we are in school and have very rigid deadlines it is easier than work that is done with much more freedom, etc. I was upset and shunned the diagnosis at first but then I came to embrace it. I am by no means saying you have this but to consider it.

Many people with ADD have executive function problems, severe procrastination and a propensity to hyperfocus and get lost in electronics, internet and TV. David Allen system is so good because it gets things out of your head. However, it still is up to the individual to decide what is important and to prioritize. David Allen system will not help you with hyperfocusing and losing yourself on the internet. Even if you don't have ADD, there are many great resources in the add literature. Check out Additude Magazine (free articles). I really do agree with the last post that Neil Fiore book is great on "the Now Habit" You could check out the reverse calendar which I found useful.

Hope this helps.

kewms

01-25-2009, 10:16 PM

Goodness knows you're not the only one with this problem. The Internet is probably the best procrastination tool ever devised. And it sneaks up on you because you'll really need to research one quick thing, but then while you've got your browser open... and down the rabbit hole you go.

It helps me to have a bare bones environment set up for work-related stuff, without any of my fun bookmarks, and also without login cookies for fun sites. That raises the barrier high enough for me to catch myself. In my case, I use DevonAgent as my "serious" browser, and it helps that it integrates more easily with DevonThink, my research database, than Firefox does. (DevonAgent and DevonThink are both Mac only.)

That helps, but it can still be a struggle. Good luck!

Katherine

abhay

01-25-2009, 11:05 PM

Procrastination is a vast topic, and everybody's solution is different. What I write below is just one (more) way to tackle it.

The mind is a pleasure seeking entity. Even if you know what is the outcome of a particular activity, and the ways and steps to achieve it, you may not be pulled towards the activity. A typical comparison that goes on in the mind is between the instantaneous pleasure that one derives from non-productive activities, and the apparent boredom or repulsiveness of the desired activities. Obviously the former wins. In spite of all the disciplinary measures that are imposed, by somebody else, or by oneself. Finally all the software that tries to discipline you, or all the rules that you make for yourself will fail. The "prisoner" will escape this "jail of rules".

In spite of a lot of guilt, the behavior changes only little if any. You now carry both the burdens: the constant behavioral failure, and the guilt. This is because of the apparently repulsive nature of your work.

A solution is to attack the repulsion itself. That is done not only by finding out what is the desired outcome of the things that you have to do, but actively imagining, visualizing, and emotionally experiencing how the success looks and feels like.

For example, let's say you have decided to be a web designer. This is just a description, and may not get you emotionally involved into it. Try creatively visualizing the result. Stretch it as much as you can while being rational. Start visualizing in detail as you read on this paragraph slowly: What would be the areas of your expertize? How would your office look? Imagine successful conversations with your clients. About finished projects. About ongoing projects. Visualize various aspects of you being a knowledgeable web designer. Visulalize that you are in your office, working towards a project intelligently and diligently. Visualize your reputation. Do this everyday for sometime. Use your creativity.

If a few positive images have danced in your mind while reading the above paragraph, how do you feel now? Does the thought of visiting nonproductive websites feel attractive now? If this has caused any change in your state of mind, then it may work for you in the long term as well. The purpose, in short, is to create a frame of mind which is suitable for achieving the desired.

If you feel this will work for you, you can look at other areas of your life as well through this angle. Currently you may feel guilty at the end of the day when quite a bit of time of the day is wasted. Visualize how you would feel at the end of the day, knowing the day was spent well.

This technique usually goes by the name of affirmations. You can write down various details of such visualizations in present tense sentences to help you visualize these. Consciously go through them daily. Keep changing and experimenting with them occasionally. The same set does not work all the time.

More info:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-allen/passion-is-not-enough_b_83526.html
http://www.self-esteem-and-confidence-improvement.com/affirmations.htm
http://briankim.net/blog/2008/07/how-affirmations-work/

Looking forward to hear your name as one of the leading experts in web design,

Regards,
Abhay

Brent

01-26-2009, 06:13 AM

You have my sympathy; addiction is difficult. Good for you for taking steps to overcome it! As others have said, internet addiction is common, as is addiction in general. Don't beat yourself up over it.

Addiction is famously tricky to overcome, particularly addiction to a thing that you can't simply avoid (you can keep liquor out of your house; you can't necessarily keep the internet out, though some folks have gone that route).

Going "cold turkey" rarely works, in practice, over the long term. The addiction is typically too strong unless you have other, new desires or interests filling the void.

One option: Give yourself solid periods of time during the day to surf the internet. Do it intentionally. Schedule time for it. Pay attention to how much of the 'net you surf during that time. Plan to spend a lot of time on it.

Between surfing periods, you can work productively, and your brain will know that you will get another "hit" of the 'net shortly.

Once you've established this habit, you can gradually increase the amount of time you spent working, and decrease the amount of time spent surfing.

It's much like the GTD idea of getting things out of your mind and into a trusted system. Your brain needs to know that you'll get back to it (whether a Project or an addictive behavior) eventually, and then it can let go. That gives you something to work with.

Hope this helps.

JulieJohnson

01-26-2009, 06:43 AM

Hi! I completely understand where you are coming from!
I have been treated for years for depression and only recently thru my therapist learned that I have ADD.
My therapist used the Brown ADD Rating scales to test me. Here is a link to the site and the breakdown that he uses for attention issues in adults http://www.drthomasebrown.com/brown_model/index.html
I have trouble "activating" for work, meaning that even when I have my next actions in front of me I still have trouble getting started for some reason. (That we haven't uncovered yet lol).
I don't have a good solution to offer unfortunately, I get sucked into the internet all the time! I think it's because it's more fun than work!
I love your timer app, i am going to check that out.

Hope this helps you in some way.

Julie

whochrisporter

01-26-2009, 08:45 AM

thank you all for all your help. I will definitely check out that book, and I went to that website about the functions that get disabled because of ADD and that was very interesting. I will continue my best to stay focus and be able to get work done.

My freelance business is falling apart, and so is my reputation in the web design field in my area. Mostly everyone knows that I'm always late, always have an excuse, always mess up on things from a list or don't follow my promises. All of this is basically from not being able to stay focus and form good habits.

I will take these tips into mind and try some of them out. I will also let my therapist know about these things and see what he has to say.

Any more solutions are fine too.

Thanks again...at least im getting better tips than my friends, who all just say "just stay focus" and "have self control" and they just say that every time...and don't tell me how they do it...

Gardener

01-28-2009, 02:14 PM

I have this problem. Unless what I'm working on is fascinating, I want to work on something else, anything else. I'm quite confident that I have ADHD, though I haven't been diagnosed. I'd suggest reading Driven to Distraction, just for some background.

In your case, I assume that you're supposed to be working on your computer and the web, so that when you ease your boredom with computer and web stuff, that ensures that you can't get any work done.

If so, then I'd suggest making a deliberate plan to ease your boredom with other things. This is often what I have to do - if I have a task that doesn't consume every last ounce of brain power, and few tasks do, then the "bored" part of my brain needs something to keep it busy, or it will set out to distract the productive part. But the "busy" input must not use the resources that I'm using for the task, because of course then the productive part doesn't have those resources any more.

So, for example, if I'm doing something that occupies my eyes and hands, I try to occupy the rest of my brain through my ears. So, (depending on how absorbing the "real" task is, from most absorbing to most boring) I'll play quiet music, or exciting music, or a soundtrack of a stand-up comic, or a movie that I've already seen many times, playing on a TV that's not directly in my line of sight.

This seems non-intuitive, and maybe for many people it doesn't work. But for me, if I'm doing something really boring, I need the music or voices to keep myself on task. It doesn't seem as if it ought to help, because the task is still boring. But the constant wrestling match with myself to stay on task is just a little bit easier when I have these planned distractions, enough easier that I usually win.

So, to summarize, a strict policy of eliminating anything entertaining doesn't work for me; what I need is something entertaining that doesn't hamper the task. In fact, if you're not being paid by the hour, it's OK if it does hamper the task, as long as you're making some progress on that task. I do housework very slowly, because I'm reading and watching TV at the same time, but since I'm not paid to do housework, that's OK.

I also find that cutting my work up into very small tasks and "cranking widgets" as they say, helps to get something done. Every time I pause to decide what to do next, I'm at risk of drifting off task. So at times when my focus is good or at least half-decent, I try to plan a lot of those small tasks, small enough that I just know how to do them and won't have to pause to figure out how. Then, when my focus is bad, I can just pick a task and work on it.

So, for example, I wouldn't do "create user/privilege system". Sure, I know how to do that, but it's big enough to have a lot of those dangerous "what now?" moments.

I'd instead have something like:

- Do preliminary design of User table.
- Do preiminary design of Privilege table.
- Create User table and fields.
- Create minimal entry screen for User.
...
- Write UserHasPrivilege method, accepting User and Privilege arguments.
... etc., etc.

Another scheme is to cut up the really boring tasks and set quotas for doing them. For example, if you have to test every control on six dozen web pages, that's incredibly boring. So in your planning, you could catalog the pages and have a repeating task for "test two web pages in the Gadget project beta". Don't even try to do a lot of them at once, just do a couple at a specific interval, and then switch to something more interesting. You could also do your "bite" of the boring tasks right before lunch, or right before you stop for the day, so that you can see the reward ahead of you.

Gardener

dschaffner

01-28-2009, 06:03 PM

Does anyone have ways of not randomly going to facebook when you have work to be done, because seriously I've lost so much money, I'm not keeping up with invoices (may be in trouble in the tax arena), and basically I don't know if I'm ready to be in the major work force (on salary) after I graduate

Can you do parts of your work when you are offline? Could you go to a location with no internet access and still get work done?

- Don

Instigase

01-28-2009, 07:03 PM

I'm not a psychologist so I wont comment on the ADD part. But there is something to say about these electronic doo-dads that sparkle and distract...

Anyhow I recommend you track and log your time down to 15 minute increments. David Seah has a simple flash version of his emergent task timer that I would recommend.

http://davidseah.com/blog/comments/the-printable-ceo-online-emergent-task-timer/

Its set to chime every 15 minutes and you can log in what you are doing. You'll have hard data on your work v. distraction time.

Yes is electronic and slick and I have found that if i have to account for every 15min period during the day - I actually am more productive.

Good Luck.

whochrisporter

01-29-2009, 04:01 AM

Can you do parts of your work when you are offline? Could you go to a location with no internet access and still get work done?

- Don

Freelance
Well since I deal with web design, only 10% of the work I do is offline such as brainstorming, sketching, wireframing, and sitemapping. Everything else (wireframing finals, sitemap finals, designing, inspiration digging, development, testing, meetings, etc.) are on the computer and internet.

For school wise, here are my classes.
Math 102 (geometry) Online
- A must online, since its an online class

Design Marketing
- Instructor gives us packets to work on with like 30 questions to answer. Most of the answers are in the packet, but at the end, the answers have to be typed. So I do most of my research on the couch, off the computer.

Portfolio
- My "final" class, since im graduating. All computers. Documentation must be typed for all pieces we have to do: web site, multimedia flash, and computer based training piece).

Social Problems
- This is the only non computer class, except for the homework since the book cost $100, I research most of my answers off the internet.

9-5 Job
About 30% of the stuff I do is offline such as meetings, brainstorming, etc. Everything else is on the computer since I'm a web designer and developer there.

So as you can see, I'm very busy and I spend roughly 15+ hrs on the computer everyday. So its very stressful, tiring, and all the other things you can think about...

whochrisporter

01-29-2009, 04:23 AM

kewms

01-29-2009, 07:37 AM

whochrisporter

01-29-2009, 07:52 AM

Are you getting enough sleep? With school *and* freelance work *and* a 9-5 job, it seems to me there's a good chance that you aren't.

I ask because, at least for me, lack of sleep can be a vicious cycle. I don't get enough sleep, so I'm not very productive, so I stay up later to try to get work done, but then I don't get enough sleep...

Often, the time when you feel least able to take a break is the time when it will do you the most good.

Katherine

I go to sleep at 11pm almost every night and wake up at 7am in the morning....thats about 8 hrs each time...Probably once a week, I'll stay up until 1am...and even with 8hrs of sleep each night, I still feel tired throughout the day and need some coffee to boost my productive just a tiny bit (but I still get super distracted...no matter how many times i get caught on google reader or facebook..i still get on like 5 minutes later)...

Linada

01-29-2009, 08:41 AM

Brent

01-29-2009, 09:38 AM

Also, you may need more than 8 hours of sleep each night.

whochrisporter

01-29-2009, 09:42 AM

If you are overly tired i'd say there are 3 possible reasons:
1) overworked. It sounds like you are. Any of your three commitments would count as full time for a good many people. If you are not a naturally high energy person you'll struggle. It might be worth seeing if you can get out of some thing/reduce hours etc.
2) Your natural energy is messed up. This can have various reasons. Bad diet, sugar crashes, too much caffeine, a sleep pattern that goes against your natural sleep pattern, etc etc. This is really about taking a look at yourself and seeing what you can do to optimize things.
3) You may be ill. Just about every illness will make you overly tired. If you can afford to, it may be worth getting a checkup.
Of course with all of this you need to make the judgement for yourself if your energy levels are normal, temporarily off, or totally unlike you, and what the most likely reason would be.

Now how this all relates to distractions:
If you feel constantly tired, you can end up being in a sort of fog. Your thinking isn't really sharp, you don't really feel like you can do your job properly, so you don't try for fear of messing up. But you want to do something, so you end up messing around on the internet. At least that's how it is for me.
I can spend all day messing around, but when i try to focus, even something relaxing such as a computer game, my mental energy drains very quickly. I can either keep my energy levels stable, although at a low level, or switch between focus and rest and actually get stuff done. It's taken me a good few years to realize how important it is to catch myself. If i don't i all into messing around again and my energy levels don't get a chance to go up again.

1. Yeah I'm overworked, but I have to since I have no help from family, and bills gotta be paid. All my bills run in a circle. If one gets cut off, I can't do anything (ex: internet cut off...can't do homework/freelance...electric get cut off...can't do homework/freelance...gas gets cut off...at someone elses house...i could do homework/freelance...but not comfortably)

2. I don't drink much coffee (like one cup a day) and I don't eat much sugar (don't eat candy, or kids cereals...most sugar I see is maybe koolaid, ice tea, or coffee). It could be a sleep pattern but I always sleep 8 hrs comfortably)

3. That could be the problem. Haven't had a check up in how long...but I've had this problem since I was 13. Now I need to work on it because my career is in stake. Like right now, I'm supposed to be working at work...and my lead designer is on me right now for typing this paragraph...He said psss like 45 times a day literal to tell me to get off the websites and get back to work...never works...and I always make the same mistakes...like overwriting files without backing up, not saving documents, etc etc...and I've been working here for like 2 years already...

As of right now, I'm still thinking I may have ADD...

I will probably try to find another software that blocks me from all sites I know of that are distracting except for the ones I need for work.

David W.

01-29-2009, 01:40 PM

I've been struggling with similar problems for years, and they've caused me a lot of grief.

I had about an eight-month period during which I was "clean and sober," and I keep trying to get back to it. Some things that seemed to have helped:

1. Being able to recognise the compulsion/impulse to do the bad thing. Even a little bit of meditation (google Kabat-Zinn) helps with this, because it trains you to observe your feelings rather than just getting caught up in it.
2. Knowing the lies you tell yourself (just 5 minutes sound familiar?) You need an absolutely clear policy that you absolutely don't violate
3. Being able to laugh at your subconscious' effort to trick you to violate your policy. There's something in you that wants to procrastinate, and it will do anything you can to talk you into doing it. (Good mood? How about some Facebook to celebrate and share it? Bad mood? How about some Facebook to cheer me up?) Pressfield's "War of Art" really helped me with this.
4. Remember that it does get easier: within a week or two, I wasn't able to believe I'd spent so much time on blogs (my vice of choice)

Also, professional help and drugs (antidepressants in my case).

Still a hard problem, and I've struggled to get back on the wagon. But those were some of the elements of the time when I've avoided it best.

sdann

01-29-2009, 04:32 PM

whochrisporter

01-29-2009, 06:20 PM

Another problem may be lack of physical exercise. Sitting all day/night at a computer, walking to the car or class where you only sit more, really don't add up to much. The body (and mind, in my opinion) can get atrophied.

Yes I do lack a lot of exercise. Trying to find time and remember to exercise is almost as worst as me trying to remember to do my weekly review, or empty my inbox. I just have to get into a good habit of at least doing 15 minutes a day. I saw this site called 100 push up: http://hundredpushups.com/

I might get on that, and do other exercise for at least 15 minutes every few days...then work my way up...every other day...increase the time to 20 minutes and so on...

Brent

01-30-2009, 05:05 AM

If this has been going on since you were 13, go see a doctor.

Seriously. Get a thorough medical exam. Ask your doctor specifically about these problems.

Linada

01-30-2009, 07:46 AM

I have to agree with Brent. If you can pinpoint a problem starting like that, get it checked. Unfortunately puberty can be a trigger for some tricky stuff, so by all means get it checked out.
Can you see your therapist again soon? He should be able to comment on possible ADD or refer you.
I think it's really important that you figure out why you get so distracted, irrespective of any workarounds. In my humble lay opinion i am still betting on some sort of fatigue issue, simply because you sound so much like me.

As for things that may help in the meantime:
A timer is probably not a bad idea. Be flexible with the time though. Try 15, 10, 5 or even just 2 minutes at a time.
Environment. Of course all the stuff about office distractions applies. Your body can be a distraction as well. Make sure you are comfy and not too hungry or thirsty. A grumbling stomach can give your brain the opportunity to go off track.
As for the internet, try deleting the bookmarks or at least hiding them in a few sub folder. The more time you have to spend getting there the more chance to catch yourself.
A trick that i often use myself is to put a sticker on the side of my screen. usually a note, but it could be something as simple as a red dot. Just something to remind you to check yourself.
As for 'silly' mistakes, make a checklist of stuff you often forget to do or do wrong. Review it several times a day, maybe during one of the mini breaks instead of surfing. Maybe even make it a webpage and put it as a prominent bookmark.

I hope some of this if of use :)

JohnV474

01-30-2009, 11:30 AM

Whochrisporter,

I can sympathize with your situation, as a similar situation has been one of the largest struggles of my life. I made it through school and work largely due to my intellectual prowess--high test scores, low grades, know what I mean?

Now that I work for myself also, I have had to come face-to-face with the issue you describe. I dealt with taking one step forward and two steps back financially, and have had to deal with creditors calling 10x a day, teetering on bankruptcy, etc. I can relate to the overwhelming feelings.

I encourage you to think about this as the same problem that many people that work for themselves face, and that is undeveloped discipline. I'm not putting you down in saying this. It is not something we are really trained to do and so you have to figure it out along the way. That is the challenge!

If you were to think of the ideal scenario, you would not require external restraints (PC timers, people yelling, etc.). You would simply, and calmly, move from one task that you need to do, to another. (That being said, I think that program that chimes every 15 minutes as a reminder to be accountable for what you are doing seems like a great temporary training aid).

One thing you do NOT need to do is to figure out WHY you don't do what you want to. You can not always control how you feel. What you CAN control is your behavior, no matter how you feel. You can go rake leaves whether you are happy or sad, for instance. What you will find is that doing even one step of proper behavior will help you build up 'momentum'. This is why many people suggest that, if you don't want to do something, to force yourself to get started for even just 5 minutes.

If you are like me, then you have little difficulty spending minutes or hours on various websites, whether they be facebook or youtube or drudgerport or whatever. This is an indicator that you do not have an impediment to actually concentrating, but instead you simply are not behaving how you would like. I would suggest looking at this from a behavioral perspective, not from a psychological perspective. For this reason, I suspect therapy will do more at uncovering problems than resolving them.

Are you using those sites in order to avoid doing something that you dread? Are you on this forum for the same reason? *smile* If you want answers, you can find them. You will find many people offering you advice that will allow you to justify just wallowing in the mire instead of climbing out.

This is one type of problem that I think GTD is good for. If you can get all of your open loops down on paper and you REVIEW them regularly and you keep reminding yourself of how you want to be (outcome focusing), you can do this. Remember how David Allen says to write a newspaper article describing wild success? Until you can imagine yourself in the process of doing and completing a project, it is difficult to figure out how or what steps to take.

You can do this! Lots of people have been through similar situations and it IS TOUGH to change or develop new behavior. Set yourself some very small but measurable goals and knock them out. Build up a little momentum.

I hope I've conveyed what I've been trying to say. My thoughts may get a little disjointed because there is a lot I'd like to share. I will tell you that having the INTERNAL discipline you need and reaching that 'mind like water' state wherein you approach your tasks with calm, clear focus, will make you feel overjoyed and extremely confident, instead of feeling unsure and unsteady.

If I can help in any way, drop me a note.
JohnV474

Gardener

02-01-2009, 08:55 PM

f you are like me, then you have little difficulty spending minutes or hours on various websites, whether they be facebook or youtube or drudgerport or whatever. This is an indicator that you do not have an impediment to actually concentrating, but instead you simply are not behaving how you would like.

I have to quibble a bit with you on this. I'm not saying that your advice isn't good, but I'm also saying that it's absolutely worth pursuing the possibility that ADHD is a factor here, including possibly pursuing therapy for it. It's _absolutely_ worth going to a doctor - not for deep how-do-you-feel-about-your-mother therapy, but for practical help in dealing with how the ADHD brain works and how to get it to do what you want.

With ADHD, it's very easy to concentrate on what interests you, and very difficult to concentrate on what doesn't. The fact that you can concentrate on what interests you does not necessarily mean that you can concentrate on what doesn't.

Now, I realize that that sounds really obvious, and why should it need a label like ADHD? Of course it's easy to concentrate on what interests you, right?

But my point is that with ADHD, that phenomenon is much, much stronger. When you're interested, it's as if all the world falls away and it's you and the work. And when you're not, it's as if all the world rushes at you, shouting in your ear, pulling your hair, tugging at your clothes, desperately trying to drag you away from the task. Except that "world" that's sabotaging you is in your own mind. But that doesn't mean that you can control it.

I'll suggest a non-ADHD scenario: Think of the last time that you had a really bad cold or flu. Think of all of the distractions - the runny nose, the sneezing, the headache, the sinuses that felt like they were going to blow up, the digestive issues. Now imagine that you had all of those sensations, and you needed to get work done on a very difficult, detailed, task, one that required you to juggle a dozen thoughts at once in order to make progress. I think that it would be a minute-by-minute struggle, a constent repetition of stopping and starting and re-gathering your thoughts, to get any work done.

I would argue that the flu situation and the ADHD situation are similar. Maybe the ADHD person should be able to just push away the distractions and work. And maybe the person with the flu should be able to just push away the physical sensations and work. After all, in the end, they're both just in the mind. But in the end, neither of them can be easily controlled that way.

With ADHD, it's usually not that the work is scarey or horrible. It's _just that it's not interesting_.

Of course "not interesting" isn't a good enough reason not to do the work, and if the person had full control over their focus, they'd do the work anyway. But they don't have that control - that's what ADHD is.

This is why it's worth looking into ADHD and treatment for ADHD - because with treatment, some of that internal distraction can be conquered. That treatment might involve medication, or it might involve learning what tricks and habits have worked for other ADHD people, or it might be a combination of both. It's absolutely worth pursuing.

Gardener

JohnV474

02-02-2009, 04:44 AM

I appreciate your cointerpoints. I have questioned the need for ADHD treatment in my own life, for example. What I'm encouraging is a paradigm of optimistic confidence in our ability to do instead of a depressed and pessimistic perspective that focuses on our obstacles. Why am I encouraging that? Because it is more useful for getting things done than the contrary.

That being said, I believe there is a genuine illness called ADHD. Many people argue that it has been overdiagnosed and, often, use as a scapegoat to blame for an individual's undesirable behavior. I suspect that there are people who have been treated for it who don't actually have it as well as people who genuinely need it who are not being diagnosed/treated.

I imagine we can agree that, whether a person has ADHD or not, there is a lot that person can individually to do make the best of the circumstances, whether before or after seeing a professional.

Again, thanks for the input.

Linada

02-02-2009, 08:05 AM

a paradigm of optimistic confidence in our ability to do instead of a depressed and pessimistic perspective that focuses on our obstacles.

Personally i think either of those attitudes is very counterproductive. The first goes with the head through the wall, the second doesn't get anywhere.
Maybe it would more hit the intended effect to call it optimistic focus on obstacles, i.e. problem solving.
You do have to acknowledge and think about the obstacles you encounter. The thinking that it is bad to think about obstacles is something i have encountered very often, and it has never had a very good result.

JohnV474

02-02-2009, 12:45 PM

abhay

02-03-2009, 01:11 AM

I agree with what you said, Linada. I didn't express myself very well. I was trying to convey the same sentiment as "tell me all the reasons why you can, not all the reason why you can't". We must acknowledge obstacles and, indeed, embrace them. It just doesn't do us very much good to act as if there is nothing we can do to overcome them. Though not every obstacle can be eliminated or overcome, there is always something we can do.

Thanks for pointing out that detail.

JohnV474

Would like to agree with John, and perhaps unsuccessfully, I tried to say the same thing in a post in this thread some posts ago. Though not in all cases, envisioning outcomes at all levels and in all areas of life including habits goes a long way. Habits and behaviors can be effectively changed by constantly visualizing and experiencing the positive pictures about yourself, which usually can be done consciously in the form of affirmations, visual, verbal, or otherwise. I was convinced of this by an audio 'Making Change Stick' on gtdconnect, and then I found other resources as well, which are listed in my previous post. Although I am GTDing since about two years, me before august 08 (when I stumbled across this audio) and me after august 08 are very different! I am now pulled by my goals, not pushed by my "duties". Although everybody's mileage may vary, and even if it will not solve all the problems (like overcommitting), affirmations are worth trying.

Regards,
Abhay

BobW

02-06-2009, 09:26 AM

You might want to try to identify exactly why you are procrastinating. In Getting Things Done, David identifies two possible reasons - you either do not know what your successful outcome really is, or you have not identified the next physical action necessary to move forward. Some other causes for procrastination are perfectionism, fear of failure (and success), and resentment.

The best book I know for describing the causes of and possible solutions for procrastination is "The Now Habit" by Neil Fiore. I would recommend that title to anyone who struggles with procrastination.

I second that recommendation - I finished the book (and of course GTD!), and with the both of them I have found my attitude to work and LIFE has changed profoundly, so much so, in fact, that I sincerely am excited about work. Cool huh!?

Co-incidently I work in a similar creative to you (music production) so I do understand where you are coming from.

I wish you all the best anyway
Bob

whochrisporter

02-06-2009, 10:42 AM

But my point is that with ADHD, that phenomenon is much, much stronger. When you're interested, it's as if all the world falls away and it's you and the work. And when you're not, it's as if all the world rushes at you, shouting in your ear, pulling your hair, tugging at your clothes, desperately trying to drag you away from the task. Except that "world" that's sabotaging you is in your own mind. But that doesn't mean that you can control it.

O wow, that hit the spot right there.

Like for example, in freelance:

When I begin a project, a project I like, or when developing for a design I'm very proud of, I'm into it, but when the client starts acting an ass, or its low paying, or its a bunch of dumb changes to make my design look ugly/stupid functionality changes, then I get very uninterested, even if I'm getting $1023472942374 or not...lol...

...but when the creative director at my job has to deal with the same thing, he gets it done, no matter what...no distractions, nothing...he just gets it done...and thats how I would like to be..

Another example...When I'm producing music, I cannot be bothered. I'm so into producing music (hiphop) and even when my girlfriend fixes dinner, I get very irritated when she calls me to eat, or when she comes to bother me...I don't even check the internet at all unless I'm looking for some sounds or sampling or something...

very weird

Gardener

02-06-2009, 01:56 PM

Another example...When I'm producing music, I cannot be bothered. I'm so into producing music (hiphop) and even when my girlfriend fixes dinner, I get very irritated when she calls me to eat, or when she comes to bother me...I don't even check the internet at all unless I'm looking for some sounds or sampling or something...

Yep, everything you say _absolutely_ sounds like ADHD to me. Find a specialist in adult ADHD and start working on it. I really think it'll help.

Gardener

Uni

02-08-2009, 04:22 PM

I've worked in industries full of ADHD people, and there it's not stigmatized the way it is in less ... in fields where personal disclosure and being a little different is more common than other fields. Nevertheless, people have to produce good work, on time, within constraints, no matter what they do for a living.

So the successful people I know (there are many) take their ADD very seriously, so they can have more real fun, not zombie (mindless, escapist) fun.

They take their medication eventually, they develop discipline in different areas eventually, they learn from other people eventually, and they constantly look for ways to improve. Audible watch or PDA timers, coaches----there are lots of ways to help yourself proceed along the path. It really is a boredom problem, so you gotta learn to redefine boredom and figure out what you really, truly want. Finding out and being who you are will give you the energy and stick-to-it-iveness that's elusive otherwise. Be kind and resist the idea that punishment is the solution. If it hasn't worked by now, it's not going to, for you. Certain lineages of secular Buddhism are popular for facilitating this process, but some people like the scientific approach that borrows heavily from Buddhism and the mystic traditions within every wisdom tradition. Everyone's MMV.

Also successful people with ADD deal with the physical aspects. Burning off energy: even if you're not ADHD, you still probably have excess energy that's not getting burned off as nature intended. (It will drive you nuts faster.) Going for walks near green trees and grass. Meditating for just 5 or 10 minutes at a time: not ON something, just learning not to take your thoughts and impulses seriously. I can't remember more right now but stick with the mainstream magazine (somebody mentioned it above) and places where actual doctors with ADD contribute. As with the 12-step model, don't listen much to people who haven't successfully worked with their ADD. They don't know.

Get enough protein and healthy fats, try pharmaceutical grade fish oil... you'll see the lists. I also agree with the suggestion to consider that it's not the end of the world, millions of people all over the world have the same thing to varying degrees, some self-medicate (as perhaps you did) and some find things that work within their country and culture. The point is, you're trying, you already know how to change your behavior and chemistry successfully, you have access to information and support most people never have. And you're smart enough and have some people skills--again, not everybody does. Use GTD to support your journey, not something to beat yourself up with. And so on.

DanGTD

02-10-2009, 11:56 AM

Go cold turkey.

"I just want to jump online for a minute" doesn't work. It will almost surely turn into hours of surfing.

whochrisporter

02-18-2009, 07:55 AM

Ok, had my psych eval yesterday (will have another one in a few weeks), and the psychiatrist said that he ruled out Adult ADHD because I had a decent childhood education (no special classes, etc). He didn't rule out OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).

He said I have with an obsession about worrying about things (worrying about if im right or wrong, if I can achieve certain things or not, worrying if I can do the work or not)...

Too much worrying and then I don't complete anything. Like ill worry the whole time, and then when something is due like tomorrow, thats when the procrastination sets in.

My obsessive worrying also makes me make excuses for everything. I worry that if I take responsibility, something bad will happen. He also think I can't trust my system (GTD) and my memory (which I may just have something separate on the on memory thing).

So he has me taking Lexapro for a week to see how everything is going, and check back in a week. He said the medicine should bring down my depression and anxiety and make me worry less.

What does anyone think of that solution

cojo

02-18-2009, 09:59 AM

Just some thoughts...

I'm not denying the potential presence of a real physical or mental disorder. Be sure to follow up on that, and do whatever is necessary. But I often think that we can "own" disabilities and develop our own customized systems to help overcome obstacles that other people don't have to think about. Try different things - see what works, and what doesn't - and keep doing what's working.

(My own personal demon is depression, and I've developed self-talk, behavioral awareness, and other things that seem to help enormously.)

Try a couple of things that help me:

1. Use a "trigger" word - mine is simply "focus" - to bring you back to task.
2. Commit to doing the task for 5 minutes - often dreading the task is worse than doing it, and getting in there for 5 minutes will often be enough to get you to do more.
3. Schedule Internet time just for surfing the net. Once it's over, it's OVER. "Tomorrow I will surf the net from 3 - 3:30." When you start to surf, remind yourself that it's not your surfing time yet.
4. Commit to making decisions about things. If you get an email, don't just put it aside if you're not sure what to do with it. Make a decision about what action to take. You'll have to eventually anyway.
5. Use any motivation you have to in order to stay productive. I love stickers on calendars and quantifying things (I got 23 things done today! etc.) Tell someone else about your goal if it helps, but if you're already missing external deadlines, I suspect it won't. Use joesgoals.com to track your progress. Whatever it takes!

Software is ok but in the end you are policing yourself. YOU are making decisions. YOU control your time.

Good luck and let us know how this works out!

Gardener

02-18-2009, 03:58 PM

saroccer

02-24-2009, 08:51 AM

Re:

"and the psychiatrist said that he ruled out Adult ADHD because I had a decent childhood education (no special classes, etc)"

This does not make sense to me. I've heard of any number of adults who got through school because they were smart enough that they could get away with their lack of focus, but then ran into brick walls in adulthood, when sheer intelligence wasn't enough to let them get by.

I'm not saying that you must have ADHD or that I must be right!! :) But I don't think that his specific reason makes a lot of sense.

However, it appears that Lexapro is also prescribed for ADHD. So maybe it doesn't matter. :)

(But I'd still recommend that you read _Driven to Distraction_. Maybe you'll recognize yourself. Or maybe you'll assure yourself that ADHD doesn't fit. Either way, it's a pretty interesting read.)

Gardener

I agree with Gardener

I didn't have any problems early education-wise, and neither did my little brother but we both started to have problems in college and for me, during work. I have ADD and am learning how to cope (medicine + habits). I, of course, am not a psychiatrist but please do read the book and try to get a second opinion.

I wonder if anyone has looked into GTD and how it helps people with ADD. I'm trying to get my brother to start it and my counselor thought it was wonderful when I told her a little about it.

sdann

02-24-2009, 03:51 PM

I went through an ADD situation with a family member. Then we sat down together and read "ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life" by Judith Kolberg & Kathleen Nadeau (2002). It's written by a professional organizer and a psychologist specializing in ADD. Targeted for adults it is very hands-on.

I don't have ADD and I took a lot away from the book. This was a a year or 2 before I started GTD and, skimming through the book, I see it addresses the tickler and splitting things up into "verbs", such as call, write, etc. Otherwise it talks about overcommitting, focusing, procrastination, etc.

kingfu

03-01-2009, 03:52 AM

I think it might be a good idea for you too start measuring your internet use to make yourself more accountable. "What gets measured gets managed"

A few tools I've found which have helped me are:

RescueTime: A free app that sits on your task bar and logs your internet usage. Auto tags/catagorizes sites (although fully customizable) and produces lots of info.

LeechBlock: A firefox plug in, lets you define how long you can use sites for and what times. For instance you can set it up to only let you go on facebook after 5pm weekdays for 30 mins. It'll block access otherwise to the sites you specify.

TimeTracker: Tiny firefox plug which sits on your status bar and tells you how long you've been online today for.

Pandora.com: Free online radio station which learns your tastes. Stops me from messing around with my personal mp3 collection non stop...can't constantly "skip" tracks.

whochrisporter

03-14-2009, 11:41 AM

Thanks to all that helped me.

I'm on my second week of Lexapro, and I'm doing good. After I ran out of all my trial meds, I started to fall off again (bad timing for when I graduate in 4 days and I need a lot of stuff done).

I've also fell off of GTD too for some reason. I have this goal tracker as my homepage when I open firefox called http://www.joesgoals.com and you can click in a check on the date for if you did your goal (like review my GTD stuff). Whenever I first open firefox for the day, I check my past to see how well I'm doing (or not doing) and see a check on Tuesday and then the next check is like on Friday (except for on tues, wed, thurs, and fri).

Any good tips on getting back on the bandwagon?

I also agree with you guys on the ADD vs OCD thing. I still think I may have ADD, but as usually 80% of my physical friends and peers think I have too much on my plate and I push too hard while 70% of my internet friends think I may have a disorder.

I will try the second opinion, once I start fulltime at my job (yeah babe) and get on some type of health plan...lol.

Thanks again.

gblunt99

03-22-2009, 11:53 AM

Awful lot of talk about ADD/ADHD here. I know there is such a thing as ADD (it's fashionable in some circles to call it an "invented" disorder). When I was a social worker I witnessed change kids' lives for the better--kids who were so hyperactive they didn't have any friends, suddenly able to focus and behave in a reasonable manner. I'm all for the right medication in the right place.

I'm glad you got on Lexapro because your problem doesn't sound like you have any trouble sitting still. Doesn't sound like you have trouble focusing per se. But that you have trouble focusing on your WORK. That is far more likely to be a result of anxiety than ADD, and some of the antidepressants can really help with that.

Internet addiction, unfortunately, is very real. Our curiosity is a powerful drive--it's what enables us to master astonishing feats. But it works at a superficial level as well as a profound level, and the Internet really hooks into the superficial level. It's so bright and gaudy and changeable that it's all but irresistible--especially as it also promises to feed that more profound curiosity. But that's not how we usually use it.

Anyone given to procrastination is going to have a big problem with the Internet, because it provides virtually every distraction known to man right under your fingertips: games, newsbits, pictures, movies, consumer items, important information, useless information, porn, gambling--it's all there. IN the past you would have had to leave your desk or at least pick up a book to do any of those things, but not anymore. It's my belief that this will be an epidemic within a few years--because people your age have never known a world without the Web.

You have a particular difficulty in that your work INVOLVES the Web. I have a wireless card in the side of my laptop that I can remove if I want to get things done--I leave it at home and head to the library. Good for you for trying the time-limit software. SafeEyes is good for that too. And good for trying therapy too.

I use something similar to the timer someone mentioned. Just a simple desktop app called Chimoo Timer. I set it for 15 minutes, and in that time force myself to work as FAST as possible--Don't allow time for thought--and then see how much I get done. Work your way up to an hour at a go and you may find you do much better.

The trouble with cognitive approaches as opposed to behavioural is that you link right into all the negative thinking that probably lies behind your procrastination (including your fears ABOUT procrastination), so it may be better to try a PLUNGE RIGHT IN approach. No thinking allowed. I compare it to standing on the beach, wanting to swim, but afraid of the cold. I end up spending AGES in the shallows while other people just plunge right it. Plunging is by far the easier way. Check out www.stevepavlina.com. He has some great free articles on productivity: Self Discipline in 10 Days; and Triple Your PErsonal Productivity.

Good luck with this difficult problem,

GB

PeterR

09-30-2010, 05:59 AM

Although I don't think I have ADD, I too have trouble focusing and getting the most out of a day. What has worked best for me in the past was to write out a detailed plan of the tasks I wanted to accomplish in, for instance, a four hour span, and then follow that plan to the dot.

For example:

9am-920: check and reply to emails
920-940: design layout for brochure
940-950: create list of to-do items to finish brochure and add as new GTD project
950-10: work on first draft of marketing plan for acb company
10-1010: break
1010-1030: etc etc

Here's another similar approach that I just came across: http://www.43folders.com/2005/10/11/procrastination-hack-1025

Any suggestions to improve this approach?

JohnV474

10-08-2010, 10:48 AM

I have tried similar approaches. Eventually the alarm will interrupt the groove you were just settling into (and on the correct task, too!)

One tweak is to use a timer (15 minutes or so) and jot down what you are doing. You don't have to change what you are doing, just make a note. This will help you be conscious about what you are doing and whether you are multi-tasking or off-track from the original task.

Often, needing new tires yields "@Computer: R&D tires on web", which leads to , simultaneously reading about tire reviews, then car reviews, then best cars for the buck, then hypermiling, then, 28 web browser tabs later, we have used up our mental energy and need a sandwich.

El_Stiff

10-16-2010, 02:24 PM

I have a similar problem - I'm a University lecturer and outside of teaching duties I have to create my own work (e.g. grant applications, designing experiments) and sometimes I just cannot. Be. Bothered!

I've found that GTD is very good for organising tasks, but not so much for keeping you ON task. I do what you mentioned in your OP - set a timer (usually half an hour), pick a project that I need to work on and do that for the time. If I have to stop for some reason (e.g. the phone rings) I pause the timer. Then after that half hour, I get ten minutes to do whatever I want. Any website surfing or messing about is allowed.

This REALLY helps, because if you find yourself drifting you just look at your timer and say "no, I'll do that in x minutes". It's much more specific than saying "I'll do it when I've finished", and so the impulse is easier to resist.

This sounds very like the pomodoro technique which I read about here last week, and I've actually adjusted to do 25 minutes work, 5 minutes rest. In the 5 minutes, I do NOTHING. Just sit and let my brain chill out! Unlike the technique specification though, if I'm still going after 25 minutes I carry on until I find myself drifting. It's 25 minutes "compulsory" work, and then after that you can stop whenever you like, and have your "rest".

It's surprising how much easier it is to get down on a project that you've been resisting if you say "this is just for 25 minutes" rather than "ugh I need to do this now and I don't know when I'll finish"

Include a longer lunch break or rest at some point too - you need to eat and fuel up otherwise you won't think properly!